Redemption

[QuestingTheLetum]

Hello

I have just joined here and was curious on something, Can any one truly be redeemed if they have sined? I my self have done allot of things in my short life that I believe I will never be redeemed for the first was loosing faith in god long ago. I just wanted to know what you all thought can a sinner be redeemed truly clean there soul or will they always be tainted by there doings?

[De Maria]

Hi, DeMaria, good to hear from you again.

Thanks. Good to see you too.

To please God, you must have faith in Him:
Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

If you have faith in Him, then you will believe Him and keep His Commandments:
Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

And he shall be saved:

Ezekiel 18:27
Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

I am getting dizzy.

Why?

It seems like every time I turn a page of the Bible, God has something different to say. I can't keep track. I don't want God to be contradictory, so I am going to simplify things and go with the following:

Jeremiah 22:15,16

"Did not your father eat and drink and do justice and righteousness? Then it was well with him. He judged the cause of the poor and needy; then it was well. Is not this to know me?" says the Lord.

How does this contradict the idea that one must repent and turn from evil to be saved?

Jonah 3

1And the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the second time, saying,

2Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee.

3So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey.

4And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.

5So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.

6For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes.

7And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water:

8But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands.

9Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?

10And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.



Sincerely,

De Maria

[Cathar1950]

Guess ill be playing devils advocate for the first part of this post....

Can you prove sin exists at all? (The usual non-theist question that is produced.)

Now to the theology, the redemtion process seems very complicated to many. Yet it is very simple. Confess and forsake. I think many will agree, maybe even a few non-theists. When you do wrong, take responsibility then dont do it anymore.

Before someone says 'Can you prove sin exists at all' , I would think the first thing to do is 'define sin'. It seems to me that different people have different conceptions about what 'sin' is.

In the Jewish faith (which does not obsess at much about Sin as Christianity), sin is literally 'missing the mark' (not hitting the target where you are aiming).. in other words, not doing as well as you can. In this particularly definition, since it does not invoke the supernatural, and the 'will of God' can be shown to exist, since people often do not do the best they can, and 'miss the mark' so to speak.

Now, if you add 'going against the will of god', or things like that.. well, you have to prove that there is a 'will of god', and what that will actually is.

You and I would understand a more Jewish idea even if the Hebrew roots and stories have all kinds of ideas such as ritual purity, salvation as being saved in this life usually meaning the people, redemption as giving your child up to God and redeeming it even if God still owns the child, and other ancient mythic and ritual transformations.

Christians also have a number of ideas of ransom and salvation depending on who you read and what as well as interpretations.
Sometime redeemed in the NT refers to collection of stored goods as doing good here and storing the treasures in Heaven to be redeemed later.

It seems much of what we do is maturing and learning. I tend to think things are wrong because of the consequences and once you see that and stop doing something the guilt or conflict goes away as you learn not to do some things.
Social and peer pressure also play a role is what we desire, that is why we should always question our traditions as well as enjoy them...

[racerd3]

Hello Zuckie, I have seen your post and I took my time developing a sufficient argument, as well as balancing college and work. AS to why you should be in God over Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny is that... (1) Neither Santa Claus nor the Easter Bunny exist. These are stories that parents tell their kids to get them excited for Christmas or Easter and is a tool (really, it is, think about it) that parents use to get their kids to behave. Also, Santa and the Easter Bunny do not bring gifts to the kids, it is their parents or legal guardians. (2) I want you to take a good look at everything around you, the sky, the trees, the animals, everything! When looking at all I asked you to, I want you to think about how this all came to be. It was NOT by evolution, by chance, that all you see came into being. It was because of God, who uses creation to show himself to us, to show that he exists. All that you see is too complex to have happen by chance; it was created by design and for a purpose. God created you and me for a purpose and that is to have a relationship with us, to have fellowship with us. But because of one person who sinned, everything is in disarray. Another thing to think about is that God loves us so much, HE DIED FOR US! This is something that people do have a hard time grasping and understanding, because it does not make sense. Why would God die for us since he is God? It is because he loves us. By dying for us, he gave the gift of salvation, that is accepting him as your personal lord and savior and accepting that you are a sinner. I am a sinner myself; I am saved by the loving grace of God! Anything else you liked to ask, do not hesitate to ask! I hope this helps!

[Slopeshoulder]

Hello Zuckie, I have seen your post and I took my time developing a sufficient argument, as well as balancing college and work. AS to why you should be in God over Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny is that... (1) Neither Santa Claus nor the Easter Bunny exist. These are stories that parents tell their kids to get them excited for Christmas or Easter and is a tool (really, it is, think about it) that parents use to get their kids to behave. Also, Santa and the Easter Bunny do not bring gifts to the kids, it is their parents or legal guardians. (2) I want you to take a good look at everything around you, the sky, the trees, the animals, everything! When looking at all I asked you to, I want you to think about how this all came to be. It was NOT by evolution, by chance, that all you see came into being. It was because of God, who uses creation to show himself to us, to show that he exists. All that you see is too complex to have happen by chance; it was created by design and for a purpose. God created you and me for a purpose and that is to have a relationship with us, to have fellowship with us. But because of one person who sinned, everything is in disarray. Another thing to think about is that God loves us so much, HE DIED FOR US! This is something that people do have a hard time grasping and understanding, because it does not make sense. Why would God die for us since he is God? It is because he loves us. By dying for us, he gave the gift of salvation, that is accepting him as your personal lord and savior and accepting that you are a sinner. I am a sinner myself; I am saved by the loving grace of God! Anything else you liked to ask, do not hesitate to ask! I hope this helps!

two quick points"
- zuckie got hisself banned.
- this is all well and good as a belief system, but it is not debate. It just pro forma prosyletizing.

[melissa]

From a biblical point of view, only sinners can be redeemed; redemption is for sinners! "For all have sinned" Romans 3:23 When I look at the ways I have offended God and become discouraged, I consider the Apostle Paul, who, before his conversion experience, had a career in killing Christians. Have you been that bad? God redeems any person who repents of sin and trusts Christ atoning sacrifice for salvation. Check out Romans 10:9-13.

[Ernestalice]

Redemption always be given for the ones who seek it.