The 144,000 in JW theology

[Wootah]

My understanding only 144,000 JWs go to heaven in total over the sum of human history.

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... to-heaven/

Is that correct?

There are 9 million JWs worldwide (rounded up).

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... w-many-jw/

Will the vast majority of them not go to heaven and be annihilated? What happens to the JWs that don't make the 144, 000?

[2timothy316]

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

How does "the smoke of their torment" ascends forever and ever"?

The smoke for ever and ever is produced by the fire which lasts for ever and ever!

This is not what the Bible says. It doesn't come from fire.
"And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever." Rev 14:11

When the prophet Isaiah wrote of the destruction of Edom this is what was said. "For in the heavens my sword will be drenched. It will descend on Eʹdom in judgment, On the people whom I devoted to destruction...Her streams will be changed into pitch, And her dust into sulfur, And her land will become like burning pitch. By night or by day it will not be extinguished; Its smoke will keep ascending forever. From generation to generation she will remain devastated; No one will pass through her forever and ever." - Isaiah 34:5, 9, 10

Has there been actual smoke ascending from the land south of land of Israel over 2000 years? Or isn't it more likely that the smoke is symbolic of the lasting reminder of that judgment? Note that the nation of Edom was devoted to not literally burning forever but being 'devoted to destruction' and remaining what forever? "devastated". What is the meaning of devastated? "completely destroyed" - https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dic ... devastated

[myth-one.com]

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

How does "the smoke of their torment" ascends forever and ever"?

The smoke for ever and ever is produced by the fire which lasts for ever and ever!

This is not what the Bible says. It doesn't come from fire.
"And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever." Rev 14:11

Their torment is the fire.

[2timothy316]

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

How does "the smoke of their torment" ascends forever and ever"?

The smoke for ever and ever is produced by the fire which lasts for ever and ever!

This is not what the Bible says. It doesn't come from fire.
"And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever." Rev 14:11

Their torment is the fire.

Then why isn't Edom still on fire today?

[myth-one.com]

So let rethink post #164 where you said, 'by dying, they proved that they were not created to live forever'. Yet Jesus exists now and forever, but he died and was dead for 3 days. How can he still exist forever even though he died? Shouldn't his death prove that he was not created to live forever? Perhaps you want to clarify post #164?

Every human is appointed to die their first death, so no human was created to live forever. The Bible states that the Word was made flesh for the specific purpose of dying. Jesus does not live today as a human.

What's wrong with that?

You didn't specifically say human. You just said 'by dying, they proved that they were not created to live forever'. Yet Jesus lives right now proving that 'dying' doesn't mean a someone can't live forever.

Can a human live forever? Apparently they can according to the scriptures.
Isaiah 45:18 says the Earth was formed to be inhabited, Psalm 115:16 that says that the Earth God has given to men not angels and Psalm 37:29 says that the righteous will possess the Earth and will live forever on it. Are these scriptures lies?

No human can live forever according to the scriptures.

To gain everlasting life, humans must be born again of the Spirit as a spirit:

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Only spiritual beings live forever.

And when a man is born again of the Spirit as a spirit, He or she is no longer a man or woman:

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

[2timothy316]

So let rethink post #164 where you said, 'by dying, they proved that they were not created to live forever'. Yet Jesus exists now and forever, but he died and was dead for 3 days. How can he still exist forever even though he died? Shouldn't his death prove that he was not created to live forever? Perhaps you want to clarify post #164?

Every human is appointed to die their first death, so no human was created to live forever. The Bible states that the Word was made flesh for the specific purpose of dying. Jesus does not live today as a human.

What's wrong with that?

You didn't specifically say human. You just said 'by dying, they proved that they were not created to live forever'. Yet Jesus lives right now proving that 'dying' doesn't mean a someone can't live forever.

Can a human live forever? Apparently they can according to the scriptures.
Isaiah 45:18 says the Earth was formed to be inhabited, Psalm 115:16 that says that the Earth God has given to men not angels and Psalm 37:29 says that the righteous will possess the Earth and will live forever on it. Are these scriptures lies?

No human can live forever according to the scriptures.

To gain everlasting life, humans must be born again of the Spirit as a spirit:

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Only spiritual beings live forever.

And when a man is born again of the Spirit as a spirit, He or she is no longer a man or woman:

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Then Isiah 45:18, Psalm 115:16; 37:29 are all lies? Can we not trust the entire Bible?

[myth-one.com]

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

How does "the smoke of their torment" ascends forever and ever"?

The smoke for ever and ever is produced by the fire which lasts for ever and ever!

This is not what the Bible says. It doesn't come from fire.
"And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever." Rev 14:11

Their torment is the fire.

Then why isn't Edom still on fire today?

Probably because the fire hasn't been set yet.

[2timothy316]

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

How does "the smoke of their torment" ascends forever and ever"?

The smoke for ever and ever is produced by the fire which lasts for ever and ever!

This is not what the Bible says. It doesn't come from fire.
"And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever." Rev 14:11

Their torment is the fire.

Then why isn't Edom still on fire today?

Probably because the fire hasn't been set yet.

Edom was destroyed over 2500 years ago.

[myth-one.com]

Edom was destroyed over 2500 years ago.

By fire?

[myth-one.com]

Then Isiah 45:18, Psalm 115:16; 37:29 are all lies? Can we not trust the entire Bible?

Those verses and the entire Bible can be trusted.

There's no conflict.

[2timothy316]

Edom was destroyed over 2500 years ago.

By fire?

There could have been fire. The Bible doesn't say. The Bible describes that it was brought to ruin and when the tried to rebuild they were not successful. In any case, smoke hasn't been rising from Edom for over 2500 years.