Paradise on Earth

[onewithhim]

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

[Eloi]

(...)

In a system of things like this that we live in, with the spirit that controls it, there can be a Bob and a Joe like that, and one who imagines them. In that system of things, everything will be very different. If you try hard you will see it.

[tam]

Peace again to you,

(...) Why is it so hard to believe the promise, even if you are not sure how it is possible?

And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

(...)

I guess you're so used to that, you don't even realize when you make a malicious accusation. And starting with a "wish for peace" and ending with another every post you write, I think you won't realize how ugly everything looks.

Eloi, asking a question, beseeching someone to see/hear the promise, to have faith in that promise as is... this is not a malicious accusation.


As for wishing peace, Christ said that when you enter someone's house, wish that house peace. Through the internet we enter into one anther's homes (I realize some people post form work), so I wish peace to that person, in obedience to Him, out of love.


Peace again to you if you can receive it, and to you all.

[Eloi]

... things that happen before death (the last enemy) and hades (the world of the dead) are destroyed. (...)

Hades is not Gehenna.

And NOT. The passage that I mentioned about the 100 year old sinner who has the skin of a child and dies because of his sin (Is. 65:20), is a passage that talks about the new system of things in paradise (as you can easily check if you read the context ... try).

Also, if you read Rev. 20 you will see that during the Millennium, in paradise, there will still be a trial with some sentenced to death ... to Gehenna, of course.

[tam]

Peace to you Eloi,

... things that happen before death (the last enemy) and hades (the world of the dead) are destroyed. (...)

Hades is not Gehenna.
And NOT. The passage that I mention about the 100 year old sinner who has the skin of a child and dies because of his sin (Is. 65:20), is a passage that talks about the new system of things in paradise (as you can easily check if you read the context ... try).

Also, if you read Rev. 20 you will see that during the Millennium, in paradise, there will still be a trial with those sentenced to death ... to Gehenna, of course.

Death and Hades are not destroyed until AFTER the thousand years, after the battle of gog and magog, after fire comes down from heaven to devour them, and after the Judgment.

When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Death is the last enemy to be destroyed.


Peace again to you.

[Eloi]

Are we talking about the paradise, or not?
I have not even read you mention the earthly paradise. Do you believe in that, as we do?

[Eloi]

(...) Eloi, asking a question, beseeching someone to see/hear the promise, to have faith in that promise as is... this is not a malicious accusation. (...)

With the respect you deserve, but allow me to laugh. Do you really think you are qualified to stand in for the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses in their role of helping us understand the Scriptures? Doesn't that dress seem too big for you?

You can criticize all you want ... in reality your malicious accusations only describe you, and it is the same in many other forum members. I don't think some of you understand the real dimension of a community like ours, especially when you/they haven't even found a small group that can connect with to serve the God you/they claim to know ... Some don't even that; Because they are not believers, they only consider themselves "smart" explorers of the Bible as literature.

[tam]

Peace to you,

Are we talking about the paradise, or not?
I have not even read you mention the earthly paradise. Do you believe in that, as we do?

I think this might be one the longest running thread on the board! Since it started I have commented on various matters that have arisen on and off topic. I think it might be one of the best threads just because so much has been covered, even though being so long means some people are less willing to read through. But as conversations go, I think it has been great with so much covered.

As for the current time, JW mentioned that some might die AFTER the end of the thousand years. So I was just commenting on that.

Peace again to you.

[Eloi]

Peace to you,

Are we talking about the paradise, or not?
I have not even read you mention the earthly paradise. Do you believe in that, as we do?

I think this might be one the longest running thread on the board! Since it started I have commented on various matters that have arisen on and off topic. I think it might be one of the best threads just because so much has been covered, even though being so long means some people are less willing to read through. But as conversations go, I think it has been great with so much covered.

As for the current time, JW mentioned that some might die AFTER the end of the thousand years. So I was just commenting on that.

Peace again to you.

And does that mean that you only argue to argue, because you don't really believe in earthly paradise?

[FaithWillDo]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1988]

Dear JehovahsWitness,

You also said:
Obviously Jesus was capable of sin or else there would have been no point in Satan tempting him. Jesus used his free will wisely and the majority of redeemed mankind will do the same.

Neither Jesus nor mankind have a "free will". There are zero scriptures that state this lie. God the Father is the cause of all things that happen. His "will" is always done. Since He didn't want Christ to sin, Christ could not sin because it was the "will" of the Father.

Here is what scripture says about mankind's supposed "free will":

Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

Isa 26:12 O Jehovah, Thou appointest peace to us, For, all our works also Thou hast wrought for us.

Mankind has a "will" but it is controlled by God and Christ. It most certainly is not free. We cannot do anything that God does not cause us to do. But since we are "carnally minded" and "of this world" we have no knowledge of God working within us to accomplish His "will":

Ecc 3:11 He (God) has made everything fitting in its season; However, He has put obscurity (the world) in their HEART so that the man may NOT find out His work, that which God does, that which God does from the beginning to the end.

God's work is spiritual work which takes place in mankind's HEART. Our carnality stops us from being aware of the work God is doing there.

Joe

Yes, necessary spiritual work is involving a person's heart. A man shows what's in his heart by the choices he makes. Everyone has free will, perfect individuals and imperfect. We all have to CHOOSE what we are going to do.

"I take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the curse; and you must CHOOSE life so that you may live." (Deuteronomy 30:19)

If God controlled a person's will, then they would have no chance to "choose." God and Christ would be enormous hypocrites, and I don't believe they are.

.

Dear onewithhim,
Having the power to "choose" is not the same thing as having a "free will" to choose. Computers make choices every day but no one would say that a computer has a "free will". Don't confuse the ability to make choices with also having the ability to make uncaused choices. They are different.

Also, no one would argue that mankind doesn't have the power to choose but scripture clearly says that God is the cause behind the choices we make.

Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

Because mankind is carnal (of this world), we do not have the ability to detect the work God does in our "hearts" to accomplish His "will". For that reason, mankind believes we can make uncaused choices.

Ecc 3:11 He (God) has made everything fitting in its season; However, He has put obscurity (the world) in their heart so that the man may NOT find out His work, that which God does, that which God does from the beginning to the end.

Christ says we are to "walk by faith" and "not by sight". In other words, we are to believe what He tells us even if it seems contrary to what our carnal senses are telling us. That is why the Word of God says this:

2Cor 2:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

Mat 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire (judgment).

So how does an "eye offend thee"? The eye offends us when we use what we see with our eyes and accept that knowledge as truth, rather than believing what God's Word tells us. We must walk by faith in Christ (what He tells us) and not by our physical senses because our physical senses will deceive us.

Also, Mat 18:9 is written in Christ's spiritual language, like all His teachings are. Christ is not literally saying to pluck your eye out. Plucking one's eye out will not change one's lack of saving faith. If we believe we do not have enough faith to believe what Christ says, we should pray for God to give us more faith. God is the giver of good gifts and faith is a very good gift.

Finally, God does not "force" us to comply with His "will". That is the basis of what the Law tries to do. God works within us and changes what we want. He changes our "will" to match to His "will" and He does this work without mankind's knowledge. As I have been saying in my posts, God is spirit and His work of saving us happens within us.

Don't walk by your physical senses over what God's Word teaches.

Joe

[tam]

Peace again to you,

(...) Eloi, asking a question, beseeching someone to see/hear the promise, to have faith in that promise as is... this is not a malicious accusation. (...)

With the respect you deserve, but allow me to laugh.

By all means! I found that comment quite amusing, myself.

Do you really think you are qualified to stand in for the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses in their role of helping us understand the Scriptures? Doesn't that dress seem too big for you?

Oh, goodness NO! I would never even want to wear that dress. It definitely would not fit.

I am a servant and a slave of Christ. I am to bear witness and point to Christ. He is the Leader, the Teacher, the Shepherd. He is the One to whom God said to listen. He is the One we are to obey. Not me. I would never tell people to listen to and obey me.

Sometimes I can help to expound the truth more accurately to another, but as always, people should take all things to Christ, test against Him, hold everything up to the Light (the light that is Christ), Listen to Him. He is the Truth.

You can criticize all you want ... in reality your malicious accusations only describe you, and it is the same in many other forum members. I don't think some of you understand the real dimension of a community like ours, especially when you/they haven't even found a small group that can connect with to serve the God you/they claim to know

Dear Eloi, I have brothers and sisters in Christ. But only Christ is our Leader, Teacher, Lord, Master.

I did not start out with brothers and sisters that I knew of, though. I asked only that God lead me to where He wanted me to be, for His truth. God led me to His Son (His Truth). Even if I had gone the rest of my life without meeting or personally knowing any others in Christ, I would not ever have been alone, because Christ was with me. I am to remain in my Lord.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy