JESUS IS NOT YHWH

[onewithhim]

Jesus prayed to YHWH, the Father, not to himself. (E.g., Matthew 26:39,42; John 11:41,42; John 17:1-26.) Would he have been praying to himself?

He continually referred to himself as "God's SON," not YHWH Himself. (John 5:19; John 8:28,29; John 10:36; John 17:1.) Even the Jews who hated him recognized that fact (John 19:7). Can he be his own Son?

He applied Isaiah 61:1,2 to himself, at Luke 4:17-21, showing that he was the one anointed BY YHWH, and sent BY YHWH. There are incontrovertibly two Persons mentioned in the passage, and YHWH is the One calling the shots. The anointed one does what YHWH wants. How could they be the same Person?

Psalm 110 is also applied to Jesus at Acts 2:34,35. He is the "Lord," or Messiah, that YHWH speaks to. Was YHWH talking to Himself?


I think that just these few points would show plainly that Jesus is not YHWH. Can anyone explain how THESE REFERENCES, ABOVE, can possibly agree with the premise that Jesus is YHWH? I'm not asking for other Scriptures to be brought in without commenting ON the verses I am asking about. Please give me your reasoning concerning these particular Scriptures. Thank you.

[onewithhim]

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.


Hear, O Israel: YHWH our GODs are a UNITY is a precise rendition of the words before it was taken over by the mistaken meaning of one.

I think you are trying to mke it fit yr religious convictions.

For sure. It doesn't say "our Gods." It is "God" singular. It says that God is only ONE, not more than one.

Christianity properly understood believe that God is One in Essence and Person.

Yes. The earliest Christians, that is, before the great apostasy gripped the Christian congregation. (Acts 20:29,30)

[Benoni]

[Replying to post 201 by tigger2]

Again how do the JWs worship Jesus today?

They do not offer prays to Jesus. Correct?

They do not ask in pray anything from Jesus. Correct?

They don't address Jesus as your worship. Correct?

So again I ask how they worship Jesus. They admit they worship him not as god but as a human. So, how do they worship this human called Jesus?

Still don't know the answer. I understand that they do not consider Jesus God, but do believe he is a demigod born from God and a human similar to a lot for other demigods. There is no denying the Jesus is a demigod by definition.

They do admit to worshipping Jesus but like they worship other men. All I am asking is how are they showing there worship of Jesus.

We have not indicated in any way that we think Jesus was ONLY HUMAN. Besides that, it has been explained thoroughly via many threads over the months, and just above by tigger. Perhaps you can read it over and over until you get it.

Jesus is far more than a god. Human beings are god's according to Ps 82. Yes God set up for the fall and sin and death. But this is all part of His plan.

[onewithhim]

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.


Hear, O Israel: YHWH our GODs are a UNITY is a precise rendition of the words before it was taken over by the mistaken meaning of one.

I think you are trying to mke it fit yr religious convictions.

For sure. It doesn't say "our Gods." It is "God" singular. It says that God is only ONE, not more than one.

Christianity properly understood believe that God is One in Essence and Person.

God is a spirit. Never in scripture is God refereed to as a "person".

Yes God is a spirit. He is also a person, just not a physical person. That's what we have come to think, because an intelligent being, even a spirit being, is thought to have feelings and thoughts, so we are used to thinking of someone like this as a person. Usually the term is associated with humans. But so is the word "man," and yet God is called a man of war at Exodus 15:3.

.

[Benoni]

[Replying to post 212 by onewithhim]

God is not a man or a person. More figurative language. Show me where God is a person? he is a spirit that is a sculptural fact.

You see God is a spirit, never in scripture was God identified as a person/persons. God is divine not a man. A person is a carnal human being. Now Jesus was a person for 33 ½ years; but he was God manifested in the flesh. Ask any Jew; God is one; this is declared from Genesis to Revelation. Not until the Catholic Church came along did the number of gods increase to three gods or three persons in the God head. God the Father, God the Son God the Holy Spirit. I know and declare by God’s Word that God is one; if it is not in scripture; then it is nothing but a made tradition.

I also know God is a spirit, be the spirit of Christ or the HS and I will not limit who He is, When I say God/Christ/Jesus/ Holy Spirit, I do not have to divide him up, fragment Him; for I know He is one.


So is the verses below addressing the first, second or third person of the so called trinity?

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


1 Peter 1:11
Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

Philippians 1:19
For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,

[Falling Light 101]

.
Wow I am still reading the great posts here. I have read 3 or 4 pages and have an understanding of what You believe.

REMEMBER That Jesus Christ Destroyed the Theology of The Trinity.

*John 14:7, "If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him."*

•John 14:9, "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?"

Jesus is eXpressing the FACT That the Catholic Ideology is a Lie. He is Claiming to Be The Father

from NOW ONWARD ye know THE FATHER, and have seen THE FATHER." by Knowing Jesus, By Seeing Jesus - You See and Know the Father.
.......................
"Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip?

he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and WHY DO YOU SAY Then, Shew us the Father?"

Jesus was The Father. And Catholics REFUSE To Accept This Fact. While They Worship Jesus, They make Him INTO a TRIPPLET Seperate Person From The Father, While Adding Other Seperate Persons, Idols and Materialistic Things Such and the Lie Called Eucharist. Who They Bow to, Worship, Serve AND WORSHIP - the Cracker.

The Catholics DEMAND That - We must worship the Eucharist. In worshipping the Eucharist, we are not worshipping a piece of bread or a cup of wine.

It is God. Placing His Spirit in a Cracker. they worship it as they worship Mary, Christ or any other Idol.
.........................................................................

Praying to Thousands of Other Spirits of the Dead as Though They are praying to another Concept of their Invented Trinity.

I believe the Trinity was Invented to Divert People Away From the Truth of Who Jesus is AND Diverts People away from the Simple, Basic, Plain Simplicity of the Godhead .

To Make it OK - To Bow Down and Worship Idols. To Get People Lost and turned away From the Simplicity That Everything The Father Is

- The Son is the Same eXact God.

God the Father is the Husband to His Many, Many, Many Believers -Who are his Bride.

He is a Husband - So - Jesus Christ ( YAHOSHUAH ) He is The Husband as well. Jesus Christ ( YAHOSHUAH ) is that Same Husband, That Same Person.

The Same Authority and Person and Deity and SAME Person As The Father. Because Every single Last Thing that The Father is - Jesus Christ is the eXact Same.

Catholics Get Diverted with the Foolish ( MAN MADE ) theology of Trinity and began to Ignore the Fact that Jesus is the Father - Manifested in Flesh. The Husband

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

God is a Spirit And YAHOSHUAH + * ( Jesus } is the Manifestation of that Eternal Invisible Spirit.

Yes, God Speaks to Himself. - Yes, God even REPENTS to Himself.

Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Exo 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

Yes, God Prays To Himself.

Yes God Worships Himself.

Yes God - The Spirit - Created Himself - A Body. To Manifest Himself to Humanity
Yes God Manifested Himself Through - Christ Jesus.


REMEMBER that As Jesus is Speaking of His Departure He Says that - God Will Send the Holy Spirit ( The COMFORTER ) "
I will come to you - I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. "

God The Spirit - is reaching out to humanity Through The Son Jesus.
Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Joh 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Joh 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
...............................
Jesus's Love, Jesus's eXistance and very Humanity - Is Simply, God - Reaching out to Humanity. Jesus is not another PERSON of a Triune, Triangulated, Triplett - Threesome of Three Separate Personalities and Personages.

He is Literally the VERY Makeup of God - He is THE VERY GOD Manifested in ( MORPHED ) into Human Form.

The Eternal Spirit Himself Shed His Very Own Eternal Blood. The Eternal Spirit Himself Who Speaks Audio Through Christ. - As Men Speak. - The Eternal Spirit Himself Who Walks with Man, as Men Walk.

As God Spoke *( AS A MAN ) To Adam, - As A man To Abraham, As A Man to Moses. As A Man to Gideon, As a Man.

The Same God Morphing His Spirit INTO The FORM / MORPH of a Literal Human Being. Living, Eating, Breathing and Feeling like a Human. While Still being in eXistance as a Spirit -
ALL at The Same time - in Heaven and in Earth, In Individual Disciples, Apostles, Prophets and in New Believers.

However - In Jesus Was the FULLNESS of the GODHEAD Bodily - In Christ.
Fullness Greek 4138 πλη��ωμα - plērōma / play'-ro-mah

Full, Whole Completion, Filled To fill up, Fulfilling, Full, Fullness. The Father God - Manifested in flesh.

These Three Manifestations - Are - They are NOT THREE. And God will never Claim to be 3. God will always tell You that He is 1.
.

[onewithhim]

.
Wow I am still reading the great posts here. I have read 3 or 4 pages and have an understanding of what You believe.

REMEMBER That Jesus Christ Destroyed the Theology of The Trinity.

*John 14:7, "If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him."*

•John 14:9, "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?"

Jesus is eXpressing the FACT That the Catholic Ideology is a Lie. He is Claiming to Be The Father

No he is not.

You said you read the posts on this thread. You certainly didn't glean any truth from the discussion. Did you miss the fact that Jehovah (the Father) was speaking TO His Son at Psalm 110? They are obviously two different individuals. NO ONE speaks to HIMSELF as Jehovah did to the Messiah in Psalm 110. Jesus would not say, as in Isaiah 61:1,2, that Jehovah anointed him and sent him, if he was Jehovah. He would have come out and said I anointed myself and sent myself! Even that series of events is hard to fathom! Who sends themselves? No, they just go. They don't say "I sent myself."

You say Jesus/the Father prays to himself. No, he wouldn't play such a game as that. What reason could there be for him to pray to himself?? No. You are suggesting that he was going through the motions of some kind of game, and I couldn't ever imagine what the purpose would be. What insanity do you ascribe to Jesus that he would cry tears of blood, asking himself to "let this cup pass from me," but "let not my will but yours be done"? If he was praying to himself like that, he was really in need of a straight-jacket.

Jesus was not YHWH, but he was and is YHWH's Son. There is nothing to support your far-fetched accusation that Jesus thought he was his Father. When he said, "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father," that means nothing more than he reflected the Father so well, anyone could see the Father's characteristics in him. He was the IMAGE of the Father, not the Father Himself. (Colossians 1:15)

[Falling Light 101]

Neither The Father Nor the Son Claim to be two Separate or two different individuals.

This is The Catholic Trinity Theory, Not The Bible.

Trinitarians and Jehovah witnesses Fail to Mention and teach that - NO ONE but God Alone is God.

Therefore No one ELSE - Is Able or Capable of speaking to HIMSELF as Jehovah did to the Messiah in Psalm 110.

No other SPIRIT is Capable of Creating Himself a Physical Body. As God the INVISIBLE SPIRIT- Indeed did create Himself a Body.

Does the Bible say that God The Holy Spirit - shed His blood and that God laid down His life for us?

Yes. = Acts 20:28; the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

The Bible says that God is coming back with all His saints (Zec 14:5)

& also that Jesus is coming back with all His saints (1 Thes. 3:13).

Are two persons or individuals coming back ? ? ? -

No. the Holy Spirit will Be Christ Himself returning.

Jesus - in The Isaiah 61:1,2, Prophecy - Is the Literal anointing. The Spirit of god manifesting Himself through a Body that God Himself Created.

Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

The Most supreme in authority. God, Lord. God the Holy Spirit – The Father is the Husband to His Many, Many, Many Believers -Who are his Bride.

He is The Husband –

So - Jesus Christ ( YAHOSHUAH ) He is The Husband as well.

The Lamb - Jesus Christ ( YAHOSHUAH ) is that Same Husband, That Same Person. The Bible says that - God is a Spirit And YAHOSHUAH + * ( Jesus } is the expressed Manifestation of that Eternal Invisible Spirit.

Hundreds of time The Father ./ Holy Spirit is Called The Spiritual , Symbolic Rock = But in the new Testament Jesus is described as that very same SYMBOLIC / SPIRITUAL Rock.

1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Christ was that Same Holy Spirit that followed the Jews in the Old testament. The Same God. REMEMBER My Friends that Jesus Did not SAY - "I sent myself." - I Anoint Myself - because
Jesus was taking on the MORPH - FORM - ROLE of a Servant.

Php 2:6 Who, being in - the MORPH - / the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the - the MORPH - / the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

So we see Jesus the Father MORPHED, Manifested in Humanity - Playing and Winning the game and task that the Holy spirit has set before Him to Win

God the Father / Creator even REPENTED To Himself …

Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. Exo 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

God is Speaking to Himself, Repenting and Praying and Planning, Playing with Himself - Planning to be PLAYING With SATAN in Competition - to SOMEDAY be Playing a reality Game with His Very self. Using Christ Jesus as the Body of a REMOTE CONTOLLED Spiritual battle against Satan.

Jesus indeed missed out on Your straight-jacket plans.

That’s why the Jewish leaders and Roman Leaders had Him Killed. For Making trouble by CLAIMING to be The Father. CLAIMING To Be God Himself.

The Disciples went on to eXpress Jesus as the Father by Commanding to Baptize in HIS NAME.

And they went on to Baptize in His Name.

His Name is the Name - Of The Father - AND Of The Son - And Of the Holy Spirit.

WHEN JESUS TOLD PETER Go teach all nations BAPTIZING
them in the , N a m e OF the Father & of the Son & of the Holy Ghost
ONE PERSON ONE GOD

WHAT DID PETER DO … WHAT EXAMPLE DID THE BIBLE TELL & GIVE OF THIS

11 DAYS LATER IN (Acts …Peter preached a sermon / The CROWD asked “PETER, " What MUST WE DO TO BE SAVED

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, & be Baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, For the remission of sins, & ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost …… Acts 2:38

GA 3:27...... For as many of you as have been BAPTIZED into Christ have put on Christ

1CO 1:13...... Is Christ divided? ..was Paul crucified for you? or were ye BAPTIZED in the name of Paul?

RO 6:3...... Know ye not, that so many of us as were BAPTIZED into Jesus Christ were BAPTIZED into his death?


AC 19:5 ...... When they heard this, they were BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord Jesus

Every single time they Performed Baptism in the ENTIRE Bible - it was always done in the Bible.


AC 10:48...... & he commanded them to be BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord… Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

AC 8:16...... (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were.. BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord Jesus.)


AC 8:12...... But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, & the name of Jesus
Christ, they were BAPTIZED, both men & women. [NO BABIES ]

Acts 19:3-5 ......"They were baptized unto Johns baptism. } Paul, SAID YOU are to BELIEVE ON CHRIST JESUS...... When they heard this they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus."

Luk 24:47 Repentance & remission of sins should be preached in HIS NAME among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 4:12: "Neither is there salvation in any other: For there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

Col 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

The name of Jesus Christ is a declaration of who He is

1. Wonderful
2. Counsellor
3. The mighty God
4. The everlasting Father
5. The Prince of Peace


Jesus was YHWH, manifesting HIMSELF AS A Son. The IMAGE of the INVISIBLE Father,

The very Father Himself. (Colossians 1:15) Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

the Godhead Was Jesus Himself - The eternal creator Manifested as a Man.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 216 by Falling Light 101]


"God the Father / Creator even REPENTED To Himself …

Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. Exo 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

God is Speaking to Himself, Repenting and Praying and Planning, Playing with Himself - Planning to be PLAYING With SATAN in Competition - to SOMEDAY be Playing a reality Game with His Very self. Using Christ Jesus as the Body of a REMOTE CONTOLLED Spiritual battle against Satan. ."

Top marks for well set out post with some profound ideas.

I would have problem believing as a fact that God would actually repent. But it's written! - yes it is also written that God does not repent in which case we have to seek the meaning of it all.
There is no indication in NT that Jesus repented. People of the OT were different from the modern man. Perhaps they needed to feel that that God could repent so that part of the scripture was permitted.

It is not neccessary to make up stories - "planning to be playing with satan...."
I don't think God plays games. There are millions of things we could say which glorify His Name as you have already noted quite few of them supporting them with scripture.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 216 by Falling Light 101]


"God the Father / Creator even REPENTED To Himself …

Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. Exo 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

God is Speaking to Himself, Repenting and Praying and Planning, Playing with Himself - Planning to be PLAYING With SATAN in Competition - to SOMEDAY be Playing a reality Game with His Very self. Using Christ Jesus as the Body of a REMOTE CONTOLLED Spiritual battle against Satan. ."

Top marks for well set out post with some profound ideas.

I would have problem believing as a fact that God would actually repent. But it's written! - yes it is also written that God does not repent in which case we have to seek the meaning of it all.
There is no indication in NT that Jesus repented. People of the OT were different from the modern man. Perhaps they needed to feel that that God could repent so that part of the scripture was permitted.

It is not neccessary to make up stories - "planning to be playing with satan...."
I don't think God plays games. There are millions of things we could say which glorify His Name as you have already noted quite few of them supporting them with scripture.

He hasn't proven any of his points with scripture. Such nonsense I find laughable. "Well set out post"??? :sleep: Saying that God prays to Himself and plays games with Himself! And that He repents! God doesn't repent like humans do. He has never done anything that is wrong. He's never committed a sin.

"Repentance" need not involve having made a mistake. The meaning is basically "a change of mind or feeling." The cause making repentance necessary for humans is a failure to meet God's righteous requirements (I John 5:17). It is different for God. Regarding Genesis 6:6,7, mankind's wickedness was so great that Jehovah determined he would wipe them off the map by a Flood. This cannot mean that God felt regret in the sense of having made a mistake in His work of creation, for "perfect is His activity" (Deut.32:4,5). Regret is the opposite of pleasurable satisfaction and rejoicing. So it must be that God regretted that after He had created mankind, their conduct became so evil that He now found Himself obliged (and justly so) to destroy all mankind (except Noah and his family). "God takes no delight in the death of the wicked." (Ezekiel 33:11) Are we getting the difference between our "regret" and God's? He regretted having to wipe out the earth's population. It saddened Him that humans were ignoring His standards and being wicked.

"Profound ideas"? I find them foolish.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 218 by onewithhim]

Quoting Falling Light August 10:

"The name of Jesus Christ is a declaration of who He is

1. Wonderful
2. Counsellor
3. The mighty God
4. The everlasting Father
5. The Prince of Peace

Jesus was YHWH, manifesting HIMSELF AS A Son. The IMAGE of the INVISIBLE Father,

The very Father Himself. (Colossians 1:15) Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

the Godhead Was Jesus Himself - The eternal creator Manifested as a Man."


Some of the things he said I certainly do not agree with as none of us agree with everything another poster writes.
He had quoted many scriptures and the above copy/paste is true Christianity as I understand it.