Evangelicals vs. Jehovah's Witnesses

[Elijah John]

Evangelicals often call Jehovah's Witnesses, a "cult" and not Christian.

Jehovah's Witnesses, seem to consider Roman Catholics, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox etc, "not-Christian" (JWs please correct me if I'm wrong on this)

Question for debate, why can't all of these groups rightly be considered "Christian"?

And part two of this OP question is directed primarily to Evangelicals, why don't you consider JWs to be Christian?

[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 347 by onewithhim]

That is nowhere near accurate. The Watchtower Society spends its time attacking Trinitarians, such as myself, and the Trinity is at the very heart of traditional Christianity. Because the Society denies the Trinity, the Society is considered as heretical in most conservative Christian circles. In return, here and elsewhere the Society attacks Christianity. One of the recent posts here denounced Christianity as the whore of Babylon. among other things. In a major Society publication publication titled "Reasoning from the Scriptures," there is a major section, p. 21, titled, "When Someone says I'm a Buddhist," where it states, "Suggestions for conversation: (1) When speaking with Buddhist emphasize you are no part of Christendom."

As to being baptized JW, no way would that have been possible for me. My grandfather was a strict, straight-laced, conservative Presbyterian clergyman, and so no way would my family even think of letting me go near some heretical, anti-Christian cult.

[tam]

[Replying to hoghead1]

So by your own confession you are not a Christian....End of discussion.

I believe he said that in the eyes of the Society (the WTS) he would have too many strikes against him to be considered a Christian.

Not that he confessed HIMSELF to not being a Christian.




Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Well, that is as good as a profession of anti-Christianity. The WTS has carefully studied Scripture and has determined what true Christians would EXHIBIT as to their orientation. Anyone not DOING what Christ taught would not truly be a Christian, or, a follower of Christ. Hoghead admitted that he didn't fit the bill of being a Christian.

... according to the WTS.

And here is the thing about being careful regarding the words we speak:

Anyone not DOING what Christ taught would not truly be a Christian, or, a follower of Christ.

While they were eating, Jesus took bread, spoke a blessing and broke it, and gave it to the disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is My body.� Then He took the cup, gave thanks and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you.


And this command was not just to the apostles (or a chosen few from among Christians) because Christ also said TO those apostles:

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations... teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you.

I asked him to say whether or not he had ever been a baptized JW but he didn't answer.

Perhaps he does not think it is anyone else's business? After all, it has no bearing on the accuracy or inaccuracy of his words on this forum.



I am not a JW, and I am not an 'evangelical' (in quotations because it seems to me that this can cover a lot of diverse beliefs). No trinity, and other things that might be taught by traditions of men, but not by Christ. I cannot accept the WTS or any other sect or denomination as being the Truth or accept the claim that being in one of them would in any way mean that I am in the Truth. All of them have some truths and some errors; but it is the errors that ensure that none of them can be the TRUTH.


CHRIST is the Truth (as for_the_Kingdom has been truthfully stating for a few posts now). There is NO error in Christ. (some who are reading this thread might disagree, but I think no jw or evangelical would disagree that there is no error in Christ). So one is in the Truth, if one is in Christ. And Christ is also in them, as He said:

"If anyone loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come and make our home within him." John 14:23



There is also one mediator between man and God, and that is Christ.

For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ [Jesus], 1Tim 2:5



Peace to you all, and to your households,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 344 by marakorpa]

That, IU am afraid, is nowhere near an accurate of teh NWT. The fact of teh matter is that the majority of major NT scholars criticize and condemn the NTW. Bruce Metzger, one of the great deans of NT scholarship, aid the NTW is "a frightful mistranslation,""orronous,""pernici0us,"" and "reprehensible." Another major scholar , Barclay, stated that ,"it is clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament like that is intellectually dishonest." Yet another, Mantey, who wrote "A Manual for Greek Grammar,' stat3d teh NWT is "a shocking mistranslation, obsolete and incorrect. It is neither scholarly nor reasonable to translate John 1:1 as 'The Word was a god." Yet another, Rowley, stated, " From the beginning to the end, this volume is a shinning example of how the Bible should not be translated." He added, "Well, as a backdrop I was disturbed because they had me in support of their translation." Now, the Society does claim to have a letter on hand from Goodspeed, dated Mar. 22,1950, which states that teh NWT "exhibits a vast array of sound serious learning, as I can testify." However, this letter is suspicious. The Society has shown only an unsigned letter, which appears to be a copy of an original, which they have never shown. In his book "Questions for Jehovah's Witnesses Who Love Truth," Wm. Cetnar, who worked for teh Society in the 1950's, states he was asked to interview Dr. Goodspeed on the NWT. He asked Goodspeed if he would recommend the translating and he reports Goodspeed replied, "No, I'm afraid I could not do that. The grammar is regrettable." Also, the Society has a long track record for citing favorable comments from scholars who are not fully qualified. One example is the way the Society totes Debuhn. Now, he is a legitimate source in the sense that he is a professor of comparative religion. But that is not biblical studies. He is definitely not recognized as a major NT scholar by the academic world. He has definitely not been in contact with major biblical scholars or discussed his views with them.

The NWT is a badly corrupted translation from page one. The name "Jehovah' is a serious mistranslation, one that modern biblical scholars are careful to avoid. At many points in the NT, the NWT unduly inserts the term "Lord Jehovah" which is nowhere to be found in the original, Greek manuscripts. It is well documented that the NWT rendering of John 1:1 as "a god" breaks all the rules of Greek grammar.

Despite the fact the Society tried to keep the translators secret, their names are known, and not one had a University degree, let alone a reputation as a major biblical scholar. Franz, one of the major translation-team leaders, , admitted in open court that he could not read Hebrew. Truth of the matter is, the NWT is snot relly a translation at all. It simply represents the work of unqualified individuals who took up existent English translations and bludgeoned them so as to suit the ideology of teh Society. It's nor surprise not one major seminary or denomination will use the NWT.

[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 351 by hoghead1]

P.S. Sorry for the typo's I just saw in my previous post, but my PC simply didn't catch them.

[marakorpa]

[Replying to post 346 by tam]

In my opinion he described what his life contained , Pot etc, which gave me the license to think he is not Christian.

[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 353 by marakorpa]

In serious theological discussions, you should focus on your opponents' arguments, not their character.

[marakorpa]

The thought that there could be only one religion that knows the Truth is very confronting for many people. I admit that others could think that the ones that say they have the truth are arrogant and self centered.

But would you have said that back in the time of Jesus's ministry on earth, didn't Jesus give the only hope for mankind to be saved via one belief, that belief was fully explained in the Bible, and all other beliefs were condemned by Jesus and the apostles, and that condemnation is in the Bible for anyone to read.

One of the things that the Bible says about the truth is that is in unity with itself and the ones practicing this truth are in unity with each other on a loving and understanding way. Does this happen in Christendom? There is 242 different catholic denominations, and even in the local congregations there is some dissent at some of the teachings, in other words, there is little unity, and this applies to most of the religions of the world.

This lack of unity goes even further and is exacerbated by various local rites and pagan rituals being allowed under the umbrella of many so called Christian religions, this is not unity, is it?

Other matters of Christian origin are lost in Christendom and tradition is favored over scripture. Christendom bows to the masses instead of the clergy sticking to Bible principles and not budging because of local pressure as they do these days.

I will now say this: There are about 8 million dedicated JWs in the world, and many more who are studying the Bible with brothers and sisters.

You are not considered a JW until you are going out witnessing and are baptized, it is not like other religions where you are baptized as a baby with a splash of water on the head and then forevermore considered to be of that religion.

The entire world wide organization is unified, and a JW can go from one country to another and they will be up to date on the lessons, talks, ministery schools and all the information will be exactly the same as it is at home, maybe in a different language but still the same.

They are, at lest, Unified.

[marco]

[Replying to post 346 by tam]

In my opinion he described what his life contained , Pot etc, which gave me the license to think he is not Christian.

Moderator Warning


It is not permitted on this forum to make derogatory comments about another poster.


Please review our Rules.

______________

Moderator warnings count as a strike against users. Additional violations in the future may warrant a final warning. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[marco]

Everyone can see that the WTS is a false, failed cult...except the Witnesses themselves.

Moderator Comment

This could certainly be taken as incivility, which we avoid on this forum.

Please review the Rules.


______________

Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[Elijah John]

the Trinity is at the very heart of traditional Christianity. Because the Society denies the Trinity, the Society is considered as heretical in most conservative Christian circles.

Isn't it ironic then, that what has become "traditional" Christianity denies the pure Shema-monotheism that Jesus himself seems to have taught. (ref Mark)

no way would my family even think of letting me go near some heretical, anti-Christian cult.

Someone unfairly accused you of not being Christian. Aren't you doing the same thing here?

Couldn't it be that both you, Trinitarians in general, and strict monotheists like JW are all Christians? Followers of Jesus as each understands Jesus and YHVH, the Father and God of Jesus?

My questions here are somewhat rhetorical, but remember here on this debating site, we are not permitted to accuse others who also profess Christianity of not being Christian, or of being "anti-Christian".