How is one saved?

[AdHoc]

Some people say you need to pray the sinner's prayer, some say believe in Jesus... is there a clear instruction from the Bible how to be saved?

[myth-one.com]

God placed every human into a body that is natural and totally "darkened" not knowing him at all and even completely unable to see him.

That's garbage!

God created mankind in a natural body in His image and clearly communicated with them in the Garden of Eden!

He gave them laws to live by. They could choose to obey or disobey God -- and they freely chose to disobey.

Under the New Testament Covenant, it is whosoever believes -- not who is chosen to believe:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

When asked what must I do to be saved, the answer was:

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved,

Nowhere does the Bible state that one must stand in line and wait until they are chosen. God gave us two choices, then recommended that we choose life:

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

God cannot refuse salvation to any believer. He is bound by His everlasting covenant. He cannot refuse any believer everlasting life because he is black or white, pink or blue, a murderer, a pimp, male or female, hetero homo or bi sexual, or even if that believer has not been "chosen!"

God's chosen are all believers. God chose to grant everlasting life to that group.

That group truly welcomes any and all of mankind! Whether rich or poor, pretty or ugly, healthy or maimed, smart or dump, loved, unloved, forsaken -- any kind of trash!

[we-live-now]

God placed every human into a body that is natural and totally "darkened" not knowing him at all and even completely unable to see him.

That's garbage!

God created mankind in a natural body in His image and clearly communicated with them in the Garden of Eden!

He gave them laws to live by. They could choose to obey or disobey God -- and they freely chose to disobey.

Under the New Testament Covenant, it is whosoever believes -- not who is chosen to believe:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

When asked what must I do to be saved, the answer was:

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved,

Nowhere does the Bible state that one must stand in line and wait until they are chosen. God gave us two choices, then recommended that we choose life:

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

God cannot refuse salvation to any believer. He is bound by His everlasting covenant. He cannot refuse any believer everlasting life because he is black or white, pink or blue, a murderer, a pimp, male or female, hetero homo or bi sexual, or even if that believer has not been "chosen!"

God's chosen are all believers. God chose to grant everlasting life to that group.

That group truly welcomes any and all of mankind! Whether rich or poor, pretty or ugly, healthy or maimed, smart or dump, loved, unloved, forsaken -- any kind of trash!

That's garbage!

Myth, it is not garbage. I only ask you read and think about what I say. That is the meaning of 1 Cor 2:14. We are all born natural. I know you know this because your book says so a bunch of times.

But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

All of humanity is natural (in the flesh) until they are reborn of the Spirit of God. Then, they become spiritual beings and God will reveal all truth to them in their true inner man. I know you understand the natural part, but not the spiritual part. I continue to write for anyone else who may be reading this or you if God is wanting to reveal this to you. Natural = In a human body (and brain) without the Spirit of God inside. A natural human body can NOT sense or understand God because the things of God are understood through the Spirit of God which natural man does NOT have yet. THIS is the "realm of darkness" that we are in! It is our natural human bodies (plus the rest of this current "world system" that is darkened in it's understanding from God)!

God considers them darkness because they block us from the true light of him - understanding and knowing him! Anyone who is natural and not saved, Paul also calls "children/people of the night (darkness)". Anyone who is a believer is "child/person of the day or light".

for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;

The master commended the dishonest manager because he had acted shrewdly. For the people of this world are more shrewd in dealing with their own kind than are the people of the light

People "of this world" (darkness) are more shrewd than people of the light (believers).

But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.

See that now? So, how does a person get from the realm of "darkness" into the realm of light? GREAT QUESTION! We covered that in my last post! God does it by having Jesus shine true light of God inside our Spirit deep inside us and we "see" spiritually speaking and believe God is real. Once a person "believes" they are born again and they are no longer natural (in darkness) as they become a spiritual being (in the light!). Their being is actually moved from the realm of darkness into the realm of light. Now, you know what Col 1:13 means!

For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,

Some translations say he "translated us". This is a persons actual seat of existence being relocated from the flesh (in a human body) into the Spirit (the kingdom of his beloved Son)

Still don't believe we were in "darkness" before we believe and are transferred to teh realm of Christ? Here is more to show us the earth and all human bodies are in darkness (can't know God)

See, darkness covers the earth and thick darkness is over the peoples, but the LORD rises upon you and his glory appears over you.

POWERFUL!

That is why Jesus said "NO ONE KNOWS THE FATHER (GOD) except the son (Jesus)"! NO ONE up to the time he was born had the HOLY SPIRIT inside their being except Christ. Thus, Christ was the only one who knew the father. Christ being fully God and fully man was the only human to fully know God. The rest were in (spiritually) darkened brains totally unable to know anything about God or hear him at all. THAT IS WHY JESUS DIED! He wanted to pour out the SPIRIT to ALL MANKIND so they could know God! See IS 60:2 above and the verses below. He was to actually come to each of us and reveal the father to us personally and intimately in the invisible spirit realm which is inside us! This is SO BEAUTIFUL!

Check these out! Read them slowly and think about what they are saying...

In Him (Jesus) was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

In Jesus was true ETERNAL life and this was the light (understanding, awareness of God) for men. Jesus shines in our fallen world, brains and bodies but this realm does not comprehend it. It is natural and totally disconnected from God.

"To give light to those who sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.�

Luke 1:79 tells us why Jesus died. He loves all of humanity like the father but all of humanity was "sitting in darkness and in the shadow of death". (Death is just separation from God's Spirit) He was "the light of the world" "to guide our feet into the way of peace". Jesus died so he could come to each person inside fallen human brains and bodies and shine the light of LIFE inside and they would believe and know the truth about God! AWESOME!

What is the goal of Jesus speaking to each human in the invisible spirit realm inside us?

to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'

PRAISE HIM! Jesus is the true light of men and he is in the (even more true) realm of the Spirit right now shining the light on our spirits. He is "turning on the lights" inside so ALL can SEE what is there! Humans can't EVEN CHOOSE GOD without Jesus helping because they are "stumbling around in the dark". You can run into an open door if it is pitch black! You can't even see it to choose it!

Do you (or anyone else) see this or even want to see it? If you don't see this, ask God to reveal this to you. It is so amazing and glorious what the father and son are doing to save humanity. They are doing all the work together because we are blind and in darkness. Jesus is inside every person with his flashlight illuminating the "door of God" for us.

He really does LOVE us!

we-live-now

[myth-one.com]

God placed every human into a body that is natural and totally "darkened" not knowing him at all and even completely unable to see him.

That's garbage!

God created mankind in a natural body in His image and clearly communicated with them in the Garden of Eden!

We both agree that man was created as a natural bodied being.

The part of your statement that is incorrect is that man is "totally "darkened" not knowing him at all and even completely unable to see him" -- Him being God.

Man talked and communicated with God in the Garden of Eden. Presently, the Holy Spirit is on the earth to assist those who seek His help. We are not alone.

All of humanity is natural (in the flesh) until they are reborn of the Spirit of God.

Correct. When Christians are born again, the flesh is discarded and they become spirits. It is a real event, not simply some emotion! You are born a second time as a spirit, or born again.

Then, they become spiritual beings and God will reveal all truth to them in their true inner man.

There is no longer any man when they are born again. They are now everlasting spirits -- like God and the angels. There are two body types -- natural and spiritual:

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (I Corinthians 15:44)

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:6)

When they are "born again of the Spirit," they become spiritual beings.

Luke 1:79 tells us why Jesus died. He loves all of humanity like the father but all of humanity was "sitting in darkness and in the shadow of death". (Death is just separation from God's Spirit)

Here is the root cause of your misunderstanding of the scripture.

Death is not separation from God's Spirit -- as you claim.

Death is nonexistence. The Bible states that the dead know nothing, they don't even know they're dead! The dead no longer exist, and never will again.

You are redefining the wages of sin. The wages of sin is not eternal separation from God. The wages of sin (death) eternally separates one from everything!! Including God.

Here it is:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

...the wages of sin is death; (Romans 6:23)

You do not believe these scriptures. You believe what you were taught -- not what is in the scriptures.

But you have been taught falsehoods. Jesus did not pay the wages for mankind's sins by being separated from God's Spirit as you claim.

In one word, what does Romans 6:23 and John 3:16 state as the wages of mankind's sins?

[we-live-now]

[Replying to post 561 by myth-one.com]

Myth, I applaud you for still being with me and thinking about what I am saying. I hope you are reading my posts because they do take a lot of time.

Man talked and communicated with God in the Garden of Eden. Presently, the Holy Spirit is on the earth to assist those who seek His help. We are not alone.

Let's go back to the Garden. What do you see that happened in the Garden? Clearly Adams state or being was changed after he at the fruit. Let's check this out:

Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Indeed, has God said, ‘You shall not eat from any tree of the garden’?� 2 The woman said to the serpent, “From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat; 3 but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.’� 4 The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die! 5 For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.� 6 When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings.

So, what do you believe changed inside them that caused them to know that they were naked?

Also, God said they would die if they ate the fruit. Clearly they didn't. Was God lying?

we-live-now

[myth-one.com]

Let's go back to the Garden. What do you see that happened in the Garden? Clearly Adams state or being was changed after he at the fruit. Let's check this out:

Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Indeed, has God said, ‘You shall not eat from any tree of the garden’?� 2 The woman said to the serpent, “From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat; 3 but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.’� 4 The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die! 5 For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.� 6 When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings.

So, what do you believe changed inside them that caused them to know that they were naked?

Their eyes were opened and they understood good from evil.

The particular characteristic which might cause them to realize their nakedness could be shame or embarrassment.

At this point there is only one difference between man and the angels. That difference is body type -- natural versus spiritual.

Also, God said they would die if they ate the fruit. Clearly they didn't. Was God lying?

From the viewpoint of mankind, they are now dead.

It is clear to me that they are dead. So God did not lie.

Why do you say otherwise?

You ignore my questions. Here is one from my last post:

In one word, what does Romans 6:23 and John 3:16 state as the wages of mankind's sins?

Here are the verses so you don't have to look them up:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

...the wages of sin is death; (Romans 6:23)

Do you have an answer?

[we-live-now]

[Replying to post 563 by myth-one.com]

Myth, I am not ignoring your questions. Until we get an understanding of what fully happened to Adam and Eve in the garden, we can't proceed further. This is a very important foundation to understand the rest of the Bible.

Their eyes were opened and they understood good from evil.

The particular characteristic which might cause them to realize their nakedness could be shame or embarrassment.

At this point there is only one difference between man and the angels. That difference is body type -- natural versus spiritual.

Also, God said they would die if they ate the fruit. Clearly they didn't. Was God lying?

From the viewpoint of mankind, they are now dead.

It is clear to me that they are dead. So God did not lie.

Why do you say otherwise?

I agree with a LOT of what you say. I agree that they and we had/have natural bodies and not spiritual ones.

Also, their eyes were opened because they were fundamentally changed in some way when they ate the apple. First, we know that they suddenly knew good and evil. They suddenly knew right from wrong whereas before they didn't. Before they ate the apple, they just lived and walked and talked with God and didn't know they were naked.

Then we know that because of this fundamental change that occurred in them they suddenly realized they were naked and became ashamed. They were always naked and God knew that but they didn't. Strange, huh? Why didn't they know they were naked before eating the apple? This is a HUGE question to answer and search God on.

Could this "nakedness" be more than just the clothing on them? Could it also represent something else even deeper and more foundational that changed in them when they ate the Apple? It would be a great idea to do a bible study and spend some time asking the Lord in his Word what he says about "nakedness" or "being clothed".

Here's another huge clue. See Gen 2:16

The Lord God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.�

Well, did Adam die physically in the day he ate the fruit? No he didn't. Thus, there must have been another type of death that occurred the day he ate the fruit because God doesn't and can not lie? Could there be more than one type of death that Adam could have experienced?

God bless you in your journey.

we-live-now

[myth-one.com]

Why didn't they know they were naked before eating the apple? This is a HUGE question to answer and search God on.

They were created naked and everything God created was seen to be good. Is being naked a sin?

It would be a great idea to do a bible study and spend some time asking the Lord in his Word what he says about "nakedness" or "being clothed".

This from someone who thinks the wages of sin is separation from God.

Here's another huge clue. See Gen 2:16

The Lord God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.�

Well, did Adam die physically in the day he ate the fruit? No he didn't. Thus, there must have been another type of death that occurred the day he ate the fruit because God doesn't and can not lie? Could there be more than one type of death that Adam could have experienced?

A clue regarding what? God is speaking to Adam & Eve, so one year could be a thousand years:

But beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (II Peter 3:8)

No man has ever lived longer than a thousand years or one God day. The oldest was Methuselah:

And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years... (Genesis 5:27)

So Adam & Eve died within the day they sinned.

=================================================================================

In one word, what does Romans 6:23 and John 3:16 state as the wages of mankind's sins?

Here are the verses so you don't have to look them up:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

...the wages of sin is death; (Romans 6:23)

Do you have an answer?

Study on it awhile.

[we-live-now]

Why didn't they know they were naked before eating the apple? This is a HUGE question to answer and search God on.

They were created naked and everything God created was seen to be good. Is being naked a sin?

It would be a great idea to do a bible study and spend some time asking the Lord in his Word what he says about "nakedness" or "being clothed".

This from someone who thinks the wages of sin is separation from God.

Here's another huge clue. See Gen 2:16

The Lord God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.�

Well, did Adam die physically in the day he ate the fruit? No he didn't. Thus, there must have been another type of death that occurred the day he ate the fruit because God doesn't and can not lie? Could there be more than one type of death that Adam could have experienced?

A clue regarding what? God is speaking to Adam & Eve, so one year could be a thousand years:

But beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (II Peter 3:8)

No man has ever lived longer than a thousand years or one God day. The oldest was Methuselah:

And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years... (Genesis 5:27)

So Adam & Eve died within the day they sinned.

=================================================================================

In one word, what does Romans 6:23 and John 3:16 state as the wages of mankind's sins?

Here are the verses so you don't have to look them up:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

...the wages of sin is death; (Romans 6:23)

Do you have an answer?

Study on it awhile.

They were created naked and everything God created was seen to be good. Is being naked a sin?

Again, they were naked the whole time both before they ate the apple and after. Thus, being naked is not a sin. If it were, God created them in sin which he did not.

A clue regarding what? God is speaking to Adam & Eve, so one year could be a thousand years:

One year was one year. The whole "one year could be a thousand years" does not refer to years being different lengths for God, it means God is outside of time and for him one year is the same as a thousand years. It's all the same to him. He's at every point in time right now and time is irrelevant to him.

No man has ever lived longer than a thousand years or one God day. The oldest was Methuselah:

And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years... (Genesis 5:27)

So Adam & Eve died within the day they sinned.

That argument won't work. Adam and Eve clearly changed the moment they ate the apple! It said "their eyes were opened". This is when they died and it happened the same 24 hour day they ate the apple.

This is not physical death, so what is it?

I know that if you allow the Lord to reveal this to you that you will be amazed at the answer. However, you will have to re-write about 90% of your book you have on your website. Are you willing to go there yet?

I will not deviate from this point because this is the foundation of everything else that we have discussed. It is also the foundation of the verses you asked me about. If your foundation is on the sand of false doctrine, your entire house will sink.

we-live-now

[myth-one.com]

I will not deviate from this point because this is the foundation of everything else that we have discussed. It is also the foundation of the verses you asked me about. If your foundation is on the sand of false doctrine, your entire house will sink.

What exactly is your point?

[we-live-now]

I will not deviate from this point because this is the foundation of everything else that we have discussed. It is also the foundation of the verses you asked me about. If your foundation is on the sand of false doctrine, your entire house will sink.

What exactly is your point?

That you, my friend, are an unsaved, natural man who has no clue what I am talking about.

If you hear his voice, don't harden your heart. Surrender and change your mind about his goodness.

we-live-now