Evangelicals vs. Jehovah's Witnesses

[Elijah John]

Evangelicals often call Jehovah's Witnesses, a "cult" and not Christian.

Jehovah's Witnesses, seem to consider Roman Catholics, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox etc, "not-Christian" (JWs please correct me if I'm wrong on this)

Question for debate, why can't all of these groups rightly be considered "Christian"?

And part two of this OP question is directed primarily to Evangelicals, why don't you consider JWs to be Christian?

[Claire Evans]

Response to post #470 by Claire Evans:

I don't know how many times I'll have to explain this....I thought that it has already been explained. That is, your comment on spirit bodies in relation to physical bodies. Paul said (ICorinthians 15) that there are physical bodies and then there are spirit bodies. "First the physical and then afterward the spirit." He was talking about those 144,000 that are called to be co-rulers with Christ. They first are humans with physical bodies, and then when they die they are to be resurrected (changed) as spirit persons.

You didn't clarify about the where you get the idea of 144 000 from. Did Paul say that?

A body is physical. There is no way around that.

"So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;...it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body." (ICorinth.15:42,44, NASB)

"Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed." (ICorinth.15:51,52, NASB)

Paul clearly informs his anointed brothers & sisters that they will CHANGE, not have some kind of physical body infused with spirit attributes and abilities. There is nothing to indicate that Jesus had a "spirit that entered his glorified body," as you stated. A spirit that has consciousness and separates from a body at death is not taught in the Bible. The spirit that "returns to the true God" is the breath of life that God gives to every living creature. So what would that "spirit" be that "entered his [Jesus'] glorified body"?

But a body being imperishable means it is immortal. It cannot be destroyed. That doesn't mean we don't have physical bodies anymore and are just spirits. According to the Bible, Jesus took on all of our sins and thus there was no Holy Spirit in Him. When He conquered death and sin and was raised from the dead, He had the Holy Spirit in Him. The Holy Spirit rose Him from the dead.

The glorified body was actually a SPIRIT body that could materialize as some angels did in the days of Abraham and Lot. Isn't that what some angels also did in Noah's day when they materialized to have sex with human women? They had been angels---spirit persons. And they de-materialized when the Flood came.

Let us look at this scripture:

Luke 24:39

See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.�

Therefore the resurrection of Christ does not mean He rose again as a spirit It was His body that He had on earth but was now just glorified. Thomas put his finger through the hole in the wrist of Jesus that had a nail in it.

The angels mention did not have mortal bodies like Jesus had. They never were resurrected. We have mortal bodies and Jesus' resurrection shows us that even though we are mortal now, we shall be immortal when we resurrect.

A very important point was disregarded by you. If Jesus' crucified body had not risen from the dead, then the resurrection story about the empty tomb is a lie. His body should still have been in the tomb.

Paul said nothing in ICorinthians in direct reference to Gnostic beliefs, as you suggest. I don't know exactly all that the Gnostics believed, but if they believed that there is only a spiritual resurrection, then they were in agreement with Paul as far as what Paul said about the anointed Christians' resurrection. He wasn't "correcting" any idea like that. He was solely describing the resurrection of the chosen ones, the co-rulers with Christ. He said that there is no flesh in the heavenly realm of the Kingdom (verse 50) and went on to say that they would all have spirit bodies, as I quoted above.

But Paul was chastising them so therefore he was not in agreement with them:

35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?� 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.

The Gnostics believe what you do:

For the Gnostic Christians, resurrection was also a spiritual event - simply the awakening of the soul. They believed that people who experience the resurrection can experience eternal life, or union with God, while on earth and then after death, escape rebirth. People who don't experience the resurrection and union with God on earth will reincarnate.



"People who say they will first die and then arise are mistaken. If they do not first receive resurrection while they are alive, once they have died they will receive nothing." (Gospel of Philip)



Paul was clearly chastising the Gnostic-like Corinthians. He told them their beliefs were foolish.

To elaborate further:

Kurt Rudolph explains the concept of resurrection in gnosticism, "For the Gnostic any resurrection of the dead was excluded from the outset; the flesh or the substance is destined to perish. 'There is no resurrection of the flesh, but only of the soul', say the so-called Archonites, a late Gnostic group in Palestine."(2)

http://www.seeking4truth.com/tongues_corinth.html

How can a glorified physical body be imperishable? How does any Scripture indicate that there are imperishable glorified physical bodies? Can you show this? To me, Paul drew a sharp line between perishable and imperishable bodies. You are combining them. What Scriptures back this up?

"...What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 3 "


Obviously the sown body is the body we have now. It is not the body to be in the future but the ones we have now. Therefore the physical body cannot be resurrected until it dies. The seed then gives way to a new form.

Paul did distinguish between the perishable and imperishable. But he also said, as mentioned above, that the perished sown body will be come to life in another form.

It obviously does not mean we will have original bodies. How could they? Bodies eventually disappear after death. Yet Jesus had the likeness of what we looked like on earth yet it became indestructible. He no longer looked scourged like he was.

To answer your last questions: Jehovah's Witnesses don't "pledge allegiance" to the WTS in so many words. We say that we recognize the WTS as Jehovah's organization on Earth, but our allegiance is to Jehovah and His appointed King Christ Jesus. We don't believe, either, that the WTS can "take away salvation." Only Jehovah can do that.

But they need to follow the rules of the WTS or be disowned. This is obeying every rule of the WTS. And it says that if one is disfellowed, then they lose their salvation therefore you are in disagreement with the WTS.

Sorry, Claire! I am surprised that I missed your post. I'm getting old, and keep having brain farts.

You asked where JWs get the idea of the 144,000. Paul didn't enumerate the co-rulers with Christ. He just talked about them and what they were going to do. We get the number from Revelation 7 and 14.

But don't Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the 144 000 will only be Jehovah's Witnesses and they only will go to heaven?

"The “Jehovah’s Witnesses� have almost no concept of the distinction between the literal and the figurative language in the Bible. And so, they literalize the number 144,000 in these two contexts, and ridiculously argue that only 144,000 people will gain heaven.

A Watchtower publication states that “the final number of the heavenly church will be 144,000, according to God’s decree� (Let God Be True, p. 113). The balance of saved humanity, they contend, will live on God’s glorified earth.

It should be noted that the term “thousand� is used nineteen times in the book of Revelation, but not once is it employed literally in this document.


Others, like J. W. Roberts (biblical scholar), felt that this company is spiritual Israel, i.e., the church (71). Some think this group represents the martyrs who have given their lives for the cause of Christ.

Be that as it may, it is generally acknowledged that:

“The number is obviously symbolic. 12 (the number of the tribes) is both squared and multiplied by 1,000 — a twofold way of emphasizing completeness� (Mounce, 168).

https://www.christiancourier.com/articl ... n-7-and-14

We need to realize that number 144 000 is not limited to Revelation but other ancient figures who preceded Jesus:

In Tutankhamen's sun necklace, the numbers 144 000 and 666 are encoded.

The carving of Lord Pacal had 144 000 on his forehead encoded also.

https://books.google.co.za/books?id=D3F ... 00&f=false

The Bible says that a body can be physical OR spirit. Did you have a chance to read I Corinthians 15:40-44? It couldn't be clearer. Am I correct in saying that you don't think a spirit person has a body? But what does Paul say there?"

Of course I believe that a spirit body, or a glorified one, has a physical one, too! Jesus look at Jesus. He had a glorified body but it came from the body He had!

Paul said that in order for a body to come to life, it must be die in first. We aren't going to have the real bodies while we had on earth but Paul is suggesting we will have our likeness, just perfected.

You are correct. When Jesus' co-rulers are resurrected to heavenly life in their spirit bodies, they are immortal, just as Christ is immortal.

So only 144 000 are going to heaven? No Paul, for example?

You change a whole truth that has been shown to you from several scriptures by elaborating on what Jesus said to Thomas and the others after his resurrection. He obviously had to be a glorious spirit person again (as he was in heaven before he came to the earth) to get through a locked door. And what of the quite clear verses that I posted? Are we to rip them out of our Bibles?

"So also it is written, 'The first man, Adam, became a living soul.' The last Adam [Christ] became a life-giving SPIRIT." (I Corinth.15:45, NASB)

Yes, the key is "living". He had a physical body which had a soul. Like we do today.

Commentary:

the last Adam was made a quickening spirit:
by "the last Adam" is meant Jesus Christ, called Adam, because he is really and truly a man, a partaker of the same flesh and blood as the rest of mankind; and because he is the antitype of the first man Adam, who was a figure of him that was to come; and therefore called Adam, for the same reason as he is called David and Solomon: he is said to be "the last", in distinction from the first Adam, with respect to him he stood, (Nwrxa) , last upon the earth, as in ( Job 19:25 ) to which passage some think the apostle here alludes; and because he appeared in the last days in the end of the world, and is the last that shall rise up as a common head and representative of the whole, or any part of mankind: now he is made "a quickening spirit"; which some understand of the Holy Spirit, which filled the human nature of Christ, raised him from the dead, and will quicken our mortal bodies at the last day; others of the divine nature of Christ, to which his flesh, or human nature, was united; and which gave life, rigour, and virtue, to all his actions and sufferings, as man; and by which he was quickened, when put to death in the flesh, and by which he will quicken others another day: though rather I think it is to be understood of his spiritual body, of his body, not as it was made of the virgin, for that was a natural, or an animal one; it was conceived and bred, and born as animal bodies are; it grew and increased, and was nourished with meat and drink, and sleep and rest; and was subject to infirmities, and to death itself, as our bodies be; but it is to be understood of it as raised from the dead, when it was made a spiritual body, for which reason it is called a "spirit": not that it was changed into a spirit, for it still remained flesh and blood; but because it was no more supported in an animal way; nor subject to those weaknesses that animal bodies are, but lives as spirits, or angels do; and a quickening one, not only because it has life itself, but because by virtue of the saints' union to it, as it subsists in the divine person of the Son of God, their bodies will be quickened at the last day, and made like unto it, spiritual bodies; also because he lives in his body as a spiritual one, they shall live in theirs as spiritual ones: and so the apostle shows, that there is a spiritual, as well as an animal body; that as the first man's body, even before the fall, was an animal or natural one; the last Adam's body upon his resurrection is a spiritual and life giving one, as the Syriac version renders it; so the Cabalistic writers F2 speak of

``Adam; who is the holy and supreme, who rules over all, and gives spirit and life to all.''

http://www.biblestudytools.com/commenta ... 15-45.html

"For Christ also died for sins once for all...having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the SPIRIT." (I Peter 3:18, NASB)

Did Jesus not have a spirit body which comprised of His old one, too? I'm getting frustrated that no one is answering my question on the empty tomb. Do you believe the empty tomb account is false?

Also, did you forget that Paul explained that when the co-rulers are resurrected they would CHANGE? I guess Jesus' physical body changed itself right out of existence. He GAVE UP that physical human body FOR US. Do you appreciate that?

Who said that Paul was chastising the Gnostics? I don't know how you came up with anything in reference to the Gnostics. I commented about that, and I stand by what I said. And no, I don't believe what the Gnostics believe. Not at all. And you quote the "Gospel of Philip"? That's not in the Bible, and I don't recognize it as reliable.

Can you give me scripture which says only the 144 000 will be resurrected?

Please read my comments properly. Did He not call the Corinthians foolish?

35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?� 36 How foolish!

You do believe what the Gnostic believe regarding the resurrection of Christ:

In light of these differences, the significance of Jesus’ literal and physical resurrection should be clear. For the Gnostic who abhors matter and seeks release from its grim grip, the physical resurrection of Jesus would be anticlimactic, if not absurd. A material resurrection would be counterproductive and only recapitulate the original problem.

Therefore they do not believe that Jesus' physical body resurrected. Is this your belief?

He is an interview with a Gnostic Christian:

Matt: Jesus said he would raise his body in John 2:19-21 . . . he retained the scars after his resurrection. it was the same body. 1 Cor. 15:20-581 speaks of a resurrected body. It is different, yet it is the same body--only resurrected.

Gnostic: It also speaks of two bodies, a spiritual body and a physical body.

Matt: Yes . . . but take it with all of the Bible . . . they are the same thing . . . like a butterfly was once a caterpillar . . . they are they same life--only transformed.

Gnostic: Yes, I would agree with you absolutely that that is what Paul is ultimately teaching. I am just using his metaphor as a jumping-off point but I would go beyond it and say that they are two different things.

Matt: But to do that is an error . . . I mean no offense. Jesus said he'd raise the same body he died in. He did.

Gnostic: And that resurrection can only take place when the spirit is free from the flesh, free from the pain and the pleasures of physical existence . . . and that separation of spirit from flesh at the crucifixion is how a Gnostic would describe Jesus' resurrection.

Matt: He retained the scars . . . it was the same body . . . yet he was able to do 'weird' stuff.
Gnostic: Not a resurrection of a mass of flesh and sinful temptations, but an rising of the spirit up out of the physical nature.

Matt: That isn't what Jesus said about his own body. Why would it be different for others? He is, after all, the first-fruits of the resurrection.

Gnostic: Yes! and just as he shed physicality and arose as a "life-giving" spirit, so will we . . . he is the prototype of our "resurrection", of our ascension past the flesh.

Matt: But, he rose in the same physical body he died in. John 2:19-21 prophesied that. Jesus said it.

Gnostic: No, but Gnostics never accepted most of the canonical scriptures as actually being the word of God.

Please answer, do you agree with the answer of this Gnostic Christian?

https://carm.org/discussion-gnostic-jesus-resurrection

Now, I've commented on your post, so will you now comment on my post #542? It goes into the subject that you bring up again in the post I just responded to.

It's post 460.

t=30620&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=450

(1) I guess you missed these discussions on other threads. The JWs here on this thread and other threads have explained that not all persons throughout history who will be in heaven to rule with Christ were called "Jehovah's Witnesses." So, no, not everyone of the 144,000 are called "Jehovah's Witnesses." What they believe harmonizes with what Jehovah's Witnesses teach, just like Peter, James, John and the other disciples of early Christianity. Their teachings are OUR teachings. There are some who, down through the centuries, believed in their hearts that Jehovah is the one true God and Jesus is His Son, who are part of the 144,000, though never identified with any particular church. (Like, perhaps, Sir Isaac Newton.)

No, Jehovah's Witness believe Jesus being raised in the spirit is false. You are tacitly admitting it by refusing to address the empty tomb story. Jesus being raised as a mere mere spirit is not congruent with what Paul, James and John believed. Jehovah's Witnesses have obviously gotten their beliefs from Gnostic Christianity which is considered heretical.

(2) What "spirit" entered into "Jesus' glorified body"? The Scriptures don't say that a "spirit" entered into Jesus. They say that Jesus BECAME a spirit. (I Corinthians 15:45; I Peter 3:18) The Holy Spirit did indeed raise him from the dead, but it is just a FORCE that Jehovah sends out to do things. It is with all of Jehovah's people, so the fact that it raised Jesus does not say that he is unique for having been influenced by the Holy Spirit.

1 Peter 3:18 said:

1 Peter 3:18New International Version (NIV)

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.

The key is the word quickening.

The literal Greek meaning of the word quicken is to “make alive, give life or vitality.�

Therefore a spirit cannot die and then be made alive. A spirit is indestructible.

11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Ephesians 2:1 (King James Version)

Does this not mean a mortal body being made alive (quicken)?


18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
Romans 4:17 (King James Version)

Jesus was quickened by the Spirit, not becoming a spirit.

http://spiritquickened.blogspot.co.za/2 ... icken.html


New American Commentary – Volume 28: 1 Corinthians, Mark Taylor.
The clause "the last Adam became a life-giving spirit" refers to Christ's resurrection from the dead. When he defeated death, he obtained a transformed human body that is spiritual. When he rose from the dead, the Holy Spirit became the Spirit of Christ (see II Cor. 3:17). And the Spirit granted Christ the power to give life to his followers and to make their physical bodies like his own. Before his death, Jesus raised people from the dead (the daughter of Jairus, the young man of Nain, and Lazarus), but their physical bodies remained mortal. After his resurrection, immortality for his people became a certainty.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-a-quicken ... escribe-it

If Jesus had not His physical resurrection, then where is the proof that the dead will rise from the dead? How would the disciples have been convinced of that? This is the very thing that the Corinthians could not have understand. They believed in just a spiritual resurrection so they were confused about what form the dead will have.

Your arguments mean nothing unless you admit to me the empty tomb account is false.

(3) I have been saying all along that the ones who will be changed and who will go to heaven to rule are the members of the 144,000. The rest of us will live right here on Earth in PHYSICAL bodies, forever. That is what the original purpose was for humans, and God has not changed His mind. Also, we JWs have said that the first members of the 144,000 were the disciples of Jesus in the first century, Peter, John and the other Apostles, and all the others who accepted the good news and followed Christ's teachings---including Paul.

Where did the ancients get the number 144 000 from like Tutankhamen? So basically God favours the 144 000 above the rest of us? That the rest of us will not be in God's kingdom and will remain on earth forever.

The earth will not last forever:

Revelation 21:1

Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

(4) Why quote Kurt Rudolph? What he said has nothing to do with Jehovah's Witnesses today nor in the first century.

Do you not share his belief? Yes or no?

or the Gnostic who abhors matter and seeks release from its grim grip, the physical resurrection of Jesus would be anticlimactic, if not absurd. A material resurrection would be counterproductive and only recapitulate the original problem.

Gnostic: Not a resurrection of a mass of flesh and sinful temptations, but an rising of the spirit up out of the physical nature.

Gnostic: Yes! and just as he shed physicality and arose as a "life-giving" spirit, so will we . . . he is the prototype of our "resurrection", of our ascension past the flesh.

Do you agree with that he has said? Surely this is the same belief as Jehovah's Witnesses?

(5) Where is it written that anyone will lose his salvation if he is disfellowshiped from the Christian congregation? Only God can decide such a thing. Disfellowshiping is DISCIPLINING a person so that he might come to his senses and return to Jehovah. The Scripture says that "whomever God loves, he disciplines." (Hebrews 12:6)

Then shouldn't the WTS be disbanded for protecting the evil?

"Shocking as it is, even some who have been prominent in Jehovah's organization have succumbed to immoral practices, including homosexuality, wife swapping, and child molesting." Watchtower 1986 Jan 1 p.13

This is condemned yet the WTS will not report paedophiles to the police.

"Watchtower has received tremendous criticism globally for its policies on paedophilia and been the subject of a multitude of media reports. Silentlambs.org lists numerous examples that highlight the extent of child abuse amongst Jehovah's Witnesses. This extends to prominent elders at Bethel, such as Jesus Cano, who handed out naked pictures of himself to young males at airports whilst travelling on District Convention speaking assignments, and was arrested in June 2006.1

The situation amongst Jehovah's Witnesses regarding paedophiles is reminiscent of the Catholic Church. The New York Times has however noted a difference between pedophilia amongst Jehovah's Witnesses and Catholic's. In the Catholic Church:

"most of the people accused of abuse are priests and a vast majority of the victims were boys and young men. In the Jehovah's Witnesses some of those accused are elders, but most are congregation members. The victims who have stepped forward are mostly girls and young women, and many accusations involve incest." August 11, 2002
There have been several reasons that paedophiles have been able to find sanctuary amongst Jehovah's Witnesses and that the Watchtower Society is now being held accountable for the actions of its members.2 Most damaging, and described in detail below, were the following:

The two witness rule to establish Scriptural crimes
The three year rule for sins of elders"

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/paedophilia.php

All Jehovah's Witnesses must renounce the WTS.

(6) You say JWs have no conception of the difference between literal and figurative things in the Bible. I beg to differ. I believe that JWs are the ONLY ones who understand the difference, and they teach such. All of those teachings are well explained by them, looking to the Scriptures to see the answers. Why is it "ridiculous" to believe that only 144,000 are going to heaven when, if man had never sinned, Adam would still be here and would live on Earth forever....not ever needing the ransom of Christ nor the guidance from heaven of the 144,000 with Jesus? Accept it or not, humans are living on this planet forever, in physical bodies, just like God intended from the beginning. So 144,000 is PLENTY to make up a cabinet for Christ in his heavenly government.

John 3:3 ESV

Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.�

Is He referring to only the 144 000? The gift is that if we accept Jesus, we shall inherit eternal life not just an exclusive few!

And 144 000 is an occult number.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 543 by Claire Evans]

Quite the slippery answer. It is not what asked for.

Context doesn't change the fact that "If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For the one who says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works." - 2 John 9-11

I will ask once more. Do you agree that the above should be enforced? Only yes or no answers, anything else will be considered evading the question.

Argh, maybe you just don't understand the context in the first place? We are talking about little anti-christs here that ought to be rejected. In that context, we should show them the door! Look at the previous scriptures before 9-11:

Don't worry, I get the context. Don't you understand that those that turn against Jesus' teachings can come from anywhere. From our own congregations, people that once followed Jesus but abandoned it to follow their own wicked path and yes even our own family members could be such ones. I think 'anti-christ' is a bit much because many disfellowshipped don't stay DFed. They end up repenting and stopping whatever it was they were doing thus no longer DFed. Though there are much smaller few that hate the correction and do go on to become outright anti-christ. Also, anti-christs can come from anywhere as the Bible points out, not just DFed JWs.

We are talking about little anti-christs here that ought to be rejected. In that context, we should show them the door!

Just so we are clear, by the comment above you agree there are those where 2 John 9-11 should be enforced? It also seems you agree that, like I have been saying this whole time, this 'rejecting' of a person is for more than just making a mistake. It's for serious practiced sin. 2 John 9-11 is not to be applied to those that make a mistake and repent, but must be applied to those that knowingly and willfully go against the example Jesus set without repentance. Don't you agree?

[2timothy316]

And 144 000 is an occult number.

No it's not. That number can be found in the book of Revelation. It was the number given to John by Jesus Christ through an angel. John then wrote it down in what we know as the book of Revelation.

The book of Revelation starts this way...

"A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent his angel and presented it in signs through him to his slave John." - Revelation 1:1.

Do you disagree that John was writing down a 'revelation by Jesus Christ'?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 543 by Claire Evans]

Quite the slippery answer. It is not what asked for.

Context doesn't change the fact that "If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For the one who says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works." - 2 John 9-11

I will ask once more. Do you agree that the above should be enforced? Only yes or no answers, anything else will be considered evading the question.

Argh, maybe you just don't understand the context in the first place? We are talking about little anti-christs here that ought to be rejected. In that context, we should show them the door! Look at the previous scriptures before 9-11:

7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist.

So it's a bit disturbing that you'd consider a disfellowed JW an anti-christ.



And:

Mark 2:13-17New International Version (NIV)

Jesus Calls Levi and Eats With Sinners
13 Once again Jesus went out beside the lake. A large crowd came to him, and he began to teach them. 14 As he walked along, he saw Levi son of Alphaeus sitting at the tax collector’s booth. “Follow me,� Jesus told him, and Levi got up and followed him.

15 While Jesus was having dinner at Levi’s house, many tax collectors and sinners were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. 16 When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?�

17 On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.�

If you context is correct, then Paul is contradicting Jesus.

Now stop evading the empty tomb question, please!

Your example isn't appropriate to the discussion. Why? Because disfellowshipped people DID KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT GOD. The tax collectors and sinners that Jesus ate with had not been taught the truth about God. That is what Jesus was there for---to tell them.

Paul did not contradict Jesus.


And your question about the empty tomb was answered by me quite awhile ago.


.

[onewithhim]

Claire Evans posted:

They do not believe that Jesus' physical body resurrected. Is this your belief?



18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
Romans 4:17 (King James Version)

Jesus was quickened by the Spirit, not becoming a spirit.

http://spiritquickened.blogspot.co.za/2 ... icken.html


New American Commentary – Volume 28: 1 Corinthians, Mark Taylor.
The clause "the last Adam became a life-giving spirit" refers to Christ's resurrection from the dead. When he defeated death, he obtained a transformed human body that is spiritual. When he rose from the dead, the Holy Spirit became the Spirit of Christ (see II Cor. 3:17). And the Spirit granted Christ the power to give life to his followers and to make their physical bodies like his own. Before his death, Jesus raised people from the dead (the daughter of Jairus, the young man of Nain, and Lazarus), but their physical bodies remained mortal. After his resurrection, immortality for his people became a certainty.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-a-quicken ... escribe-it

If Jesus had not His physical resurrection, then where is the proof that the dead will rise from the dead? How would the disciples have been convinced of that? This is the very thing that the Corinthians could not have understand. They believed in just a spiritual resurrection so they were confused about what form the dead will have.

Your arguments mean nothing unless you admit to me the empty tomb account is false.

(3) I have been saying all along that the ones who will be changed and who will go to heaven to rule are the members of the 144,000. The rest of us will live right here on Earth in PHYSICAL bodies, forever. That is what the original purpose was for humans, and God has not changed His mind. Also, we JWs have said that the first members of the 144,000 were the disciples of Jesus in the first century, Peter, John and the other Apostles, and all the others who accepted the good news and followed Christ's teachings---including Paul.

Where did the ancients get the number 144 000 from like Tutankhamen? So basically God favours the 144 000 above the rest of us? That the rest of us will not be in God's kingdom and will remain on earth forever.

The earth will not last forever:

Revelation 21:1

Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

(4) Why quote Kurt Rudolph? What he said has nothing to do with Jehovah's Witnesses today nor in the first century.

Do you not share his belief? Yes or no?

or the Gnostic who abhors matter and seeks release from its grim grip, the physical resurrection of Jesus would be anticlimactic, if not absurd. A material resurrection would be counterproductive and only recapitulate the original problem.

Gnostic: Not a resurrection of a mass of flesh and sinful temptations, but an rising of the spirit up out of the physical nature.

Gnostic: Yes! and just as he shed physicality and arose as a "life-giving" spirit, so will we . . . he is the prototype of our "resurrection", of our ascension past the flesh.

Do you agree with that he has said? Surely this is the same belief as Jehovah's Witnesses?



"Shocking as it is, even some who have been prominent in Jehovah's organization have succumbed to immoral practices, including homosexuality, wife swapping, and child molesting." Watchtower 1986 Jan 1 p.13

This is condemned yet the WTS will not report paedophiles to the police.

"Watchtower has received tremendous criticism globally for its policies on paedophilia and been the subject of a multitude of media reports. Silentlambs.org lists numerous examples that highlight the extent of child abuse amongst Jehovah's Witnesses. This extends to prominent elders at Bethel, such as Jesus Cano, who handed out naked pictures of himself to young males at airports whilst travelling on District Convention speaking assignments, and was arrested in June 2006.1

The situation amongst Jehovah's Witnesses regarding paedophiles is reminiscent of the Catholic Church. The New York Times has however noted a difference between pedophilia amongst Jehovah's Witnesses and Catholic's. In the Catholic Church:

"most of the people accused of abuse are priests and a vast majority of the victims were boys and young men. In the Jehovah's Witnesses some of those accused are elders, but most are congregation members. The victims who have stepped forward are mostly girls and young women, and many accusations involve incest." August 11, 2002
There have been several reasons that paedophiles have been able to find sanctuary amongst Jehovah's Witnesses and that the Watchtower Society is now being held accountable for the actions of its members.2 Most damaging, and described in detail below, were the following:

The two witness rule to establish Scriptural crimes
The three year rule for sins of elders"

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/paedophilia.php

All Jehovah's Witnesses must renounce the WTS.

(6) You say JWs have no conception of the difference between literal and figurative things in the Bible. I beg to differ. I believe that JWs are the ONLY ones who understand the difference, and they teach such. All of those teachings are well explained by them, looking to the Scriptures to see the answers. Why is it "ridiculous" to believe that only 144,000 are going to heaven when, if man had never sinned, Adam would still be here and would live on Earth forever....not ever needing the ransom of Christ nor the guidance from heaven of the 144,000 with Jesus? Accept it or not, humans are living on this planet forever, in physical bodies, just like God intended from the beginning. So 144,000 is PLENTY to make up a cabinet for Christ in his heavenly government.

John 3:3 ESV

Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.�

Is He referring to only the 144 000? The gift is that if we accept Jesus, we shall inherit eternal life not just an exclusive few!

And 144 000 is an occult number.[/quote]

____________________________________________________________________
ONEWITHHIM RESPONDS:

(1) We believe that Jesus was not resurrected in a physical body. That is correct. If the Gnostics happen to believe that too, that's OK with us. JWs do NOT believe the following, which Gnostics believe:

(a) That all of mankind will be resurrected to life in spirit bodies.
(b) That most of the canonical Scriptures are not really the Word of God.
(c) That the earth was created in a flawed manner.
(d) That the blame for the world's failings lies with the Creator.
(e) That the True God did not actually create anything but he "emanated" it from within himself, bringing forth the substance of all there is; ALL is God, for all consists of the substance of God.
(f) That "Sophia," one of the "aeonial beings," is of any importance, and that from her own being came a being that imagined himself to be the ultimate and absolute God, with his minions the Archons.
(g) That it is not salvation from sin that we aspire to, but salvation from ignorance. It is not by Christ's suffering and death that he has performed his work of salvation, but by his life of teaching and his "establishing of mysteries."


There is much more, and most of it is very complicated and convoluted. From what I have listed here, I think it is plain to see that JWs do not agree with Gnostics on most things.


(2) I don't quite get your discussion of "quickening." I Peter 3:18 says that Christ was put to death in the flesh and "quickened" in the spirit. He was made alive in the spirit. He had a spirit body, upon being resurrected. You didn't answer my question: "What spirit entered into Christ's glorified body?"

(3) Jesus became a human when he came to Earth. He was not a spirit any longer, the way he had been in heaven (just as the Father, God, is [John 4:24]). So when he died, it wasn't a spirit being that died. It was his physical body---which he GAVE UP for our salvation. The scripture about "quickening" does not say that Jesus' physical body was made alive. Another version of the Bible says: "...having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit." (NASB) Pretty clear.

(4) The New American Commentary you quoted does not collide or wreck or disagree with the belief of Jehovah's Witnesses.

(5) Jesus didn't have to rise in a physical body to give us the assurance that there will be a resurrection of "both the righteous and the unrighteous." (Acts 24:15) The fact that he was resurrected AT ALL shows us that the dead will rise.

(6) My arguments might mean nothing to you, but they are held by way over 8 million people on this planet. Your ideas are your prerogative. It's your choice what you accept and what you don't. I choose not to accept your ideas.

(7) God does NOT "favor the 144,000 over the rest of us." President Obama's cabinet isn't made up of superior human beings. They are all regular humans. In like manner, Jesus' "cabinet" of 144,000 are not special superior persons. They are all just like regular people. They just have been given a great assignment, to serve and guide the billions of people on the earth during Christ's Millennial Reign.

(8) Your understanding of Revelation 21 needs a bit of help. Why would it be literal when most of Revelation is SYMBOLIC? For arguments' sake, let's just say for a moment that the number 144,000 is not literal. Let's set it on the shelf and not pay any attention to it. Does that change anything? No, because we know that Jesus will have many of his followers in heaven with him to rule over the earth. He said so a number of times. (Matt.19:28; Matt.20:21-23) In Revelation 7 there are two groups portrayed, the "12 tribes of Israel" and then a great crowd which has no number. So whether or not there are LITERALLY 144,000 in heaven, we have a situation where some are ruling with Jesus and some who are not. So, we have taken out the most agitating point, to you, of 144,000 literal persons. Now the whole book of Revelation is SYMBOLIC, right?

Why do you take chapter 21, verses 1-3, as literal? New Jerusalem is coming down out of heaven. What exactly IS the New Jerusalem? It's not even a literal city! New Jerusalem is the Bride of Christ....it is made up of Jesus' anointed co-rulers. What has "passed away" in verse 1? The former heaven and the former earth. Could this mean that the former governments of earth are gone, and the former world of wicked mankind is gone? "The sea is no more"....could that mean that the roiling, disgruntled masses of people that inhabited the earth are gone? Revelation itself defined "the sea" as people. (Rev.17:15) No one will be disgruntled in the new system of things. The planet will always be here:

"A generation is going, and a generation is coming; but the earth is standing forever." (Ecclesiastes 1:4)

"Those hoping in Jehovah will possess the earth....They will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace....The righteous will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it." (Psalm 37:9b,11b,29)


The Gnostic fellow that you quote might believe that people are raised in the spirit, but he doesn't agree with JWs. We believe that only a certain number will be raised in the spirit, and MOST people that have died will be raised back to physical bodies.

You try to equate JWs with what the RCC has done, and that is erroneous. JWs discipline the pedophiles and the adulterers, etc. The RCC doesn't. JWs do have the "two witness" rule, gotten from the Bible. It protects a person from being accused unfairly. And I have NEVER heard of the "three year rule" for sins of elders.

We have never said that just a few will inherit eternal life. You are making that up.


[/u][/b]

[Claire Evans]

[Replying to post 543 by Claire Evans]

Quite the slippery answer. It is not what asked for.

Context doesn't change the fact that "If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For the one who says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works." - 2 John 9-11

I will ask once more. Do you agree that the above should be enforced? Only yes or no answers, anything else will be considered evading the question.

Argh, maybe you just don't understand the context in the first place? We are talking about little anti-christs here that ought to be rejected. In that context, we should show them the door! Look at the previous scriptures before 9-11:

Don't worry, I get the context. Don't you understand that those that turn against Jesus' teachings can come from anywhere. From our own congregations, people that once followed Jesus but abandoned it to follow their own wicked path and yes even our own family members could be such ones. I think 'anti-christ' is a bit much because many disfellowshipped don't stay DFed. They end up repenting and stopping whatever it was they were doing thus no longer DFed. Though there are much smaller few that hate the correction and do go on to become outright anti-christ. Also, anti-christs can come from anywhere as the Bible points out, not just DFed JWs.

You need to ask yourself why people do certain things. Why do people abandon religions? Because in some cases, they are disillusioned with the hypocrisy. It is not necessarily Christ they are abandoning but the religion. It is throwing the baby out with the bath water but perhaps they never received the proper guidance. Then without Jesus, they may really be tempted to do wicked thing. There are always shades of grey. We cannot judge someone. That doesn't mean we will tolerate their sin but who are we to disfellowship? In fact, all of us sin. I do agree that if someone is toxic and will bring misery, they should cut ties if possible. Yet if they repent, and not because they are pleasing to the WTS, then they should be welcomed with open arms. They should not "repent" because of fear.

The WTS does the shunning yet it covers for paedophiles. What hypocrisy! All the WTS is doing is enslaving people by keeping them in a perpetual state of fear and guilt. This is no different to Scientology.

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/paedophilia.php




One gets disfellowedship because they disobey the rules of the WTS, not Jesus. It is completely fabricated that Jesus did not rise with His physical body. The Bible contradicts that. By your silence, you concede I'm right.

According to the WTS, "anti-christ" is what a disfellowshipped person is called an anti-christ.

2 John 10 says not to greet the Antichrist. The Watchtower uses this single scripture to support not saying hello to a disfellowshipped person.

"… a simple "Hello" to someone can be the first step that develops into a conversation and maybe even a friendship. Would we want to take that first step with a disfellowshiped person?" Watchtower 1981 Sep 15 p.25


I don't know how one goes from being an anti-christ to someone saved.

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/disfe ... unning.php




One gets disfellowshipped for things not even associated with the Bible:

"The Watchtower disfellowships for practices never discussed in the Bible such as smoking, gambling and having a blood transfusion."

Jesus would have been disfellowshipped because He spoke to the woman at the well who was immoral.

John 4:

7 When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, “Will you give me a drink?� 8 (His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.)

9 The Samaritan woman said to him, “You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?� (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.[a])

10 Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.�

11 “Sir,� the woman said, “you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? 12 Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his livestock?�

13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.�

15 The woman said to him, “Sir, give me this water so that I won’t get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water.�

16 He told her, “Go, call your husband and come back.�

17 “I have no husband,� she replied.

Jesus said to her, “You are right when you say you have no husband. 18 The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true.�

19 “Sir,� the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. 20 Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.�

21 “Woman,� Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.�

25 The woman said, “I know that Messiah� (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.�

26 Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you—I am he.�

Why didn't He ignore her?


Also Jesus said:


Matthew 18:15-17:

"Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector."

No shunning there.

Back to John 2 about "not welcoming in the home":

The meaning of the phrase never receive him into YOUR homes should be understood in the context of the hospitality of first century Jerusalem. Since Christians held congregation meetings in their homes John possibly felt that inviting a denier of Christ into a home could be viewed as sharing worship with non-Christians.

Thus the word anti-christ.


"Likewise the term to never "say a greeting" needs to be understood in light of first century practice. In the following article, the Watchtower incorrectly claims that John used the term "greeting" to indicate a simple hello.

"John here used khairo, which was a greeting like good day or hello. (Acts 15:23; Matthew 28:9) He did not use aspazomai (as in verse 13), which means to enfold in the arms, thus to greet, to welcome and may have implied a very warm greeting, even with an embrace. (Luke 10:4; 11:43; Acts 20:1, 37; 1 Thessalonians 5:26) So the direction at 2 John 11 could well mean not to say even hello to such ones." Watchtower 1988 Apr 15 p.27
This article claims the word khairo is used to forbid a simple greeting, instead of aspazomai which means a more affectionate embrace, enfolding in the arms, kiss, greeting or welcome. This is incorrect, and the opposite is true. Strong's Concordance states;

5463 chairo {khah'-ee-ro} 1) to rejoice, be glad 2) to rejoice exceedingly 3) to be well, thrive 4) in salutations, hail! 5) at the beginning of letters: to give one greeting, salute
783 aspasmos {as-pas-mos} 1) a salutation, either oral or written
2 John does not indicate a polite greeting is wrong. John here shows that a person is a sharer in the Antichrist's wicked works if he shows acceptance and agreement with the evildoers cause or teachings, or wishes them favour and success."

Context is so important!

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/disfe ... hp#reasons

We are talking about little anti-christs here that ought to be rejected. In that context, we should show them the door!

Just so we are clear, by the comment above you agree there are those where 2 John 9-11 should be enforced? It also seems you agree that, like I have been saying this whole time, this 'rejecting' of a person is for more than just making a mistake. It's for serious practiced sin. 2 John 9-11 is not to be applied to those that make a mistake and repent, but must be applied to those that knowingly and willfully go against the example Jesus set without repentance. Don't you agree?

Look at the context above. I don't agree nor does Jesus.

And what about the empty tomb?

[2timothy316]

Just so we are clear, by the comment above you agree there are those where 2 John 9-11 should be enforced? It also seems you agree that, like I have been saying this whole time, this 'rejecting' of a person is for more than just making a mistake. It's for serious practiced sin. 2 John 9-11 is not to be applied to those that make a mistake and repent, but must be applied to those that knowingly and willfully go against the example Jesus set without repentance. Don't you agree?

I don't agree nor does Jesus.

Then let this be an example of where Jehovah's Witnesses know and follow the Bible were others don't. Jesus said that those that don't know the scriptures would be in error. Not only that, they don't know the power of God in the scriptures.

"Jesus said to them: “Is not this why you are mistaken, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God?" - Mark 12:24

Also, don't be so quick to speak for Jesus. "For the Father judges no one at all, but he has entrusted all the judging to the Son, so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him." John 5:22, 23.

Just who do you think told John to write what he did? Jesus is charge of the congregation. John was simply following Jesus' command to write what he was told to write. The same person that followed Jesus and was God-Inspired to write the Gospel of John also wrote 2 John 9-11.

"Indeed, that is why we also thank God unceasingly, because when you received God’s word, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but, just as it truthfully is, as the word of God, which is also at work in you believers." 1 Thessalonians 2:13.

Now for the question of Evangelicals vs JWs. Shouldn't the true religion follow the commands in the Bible? Like 2 John 9-11.

[Claire Evans]

Just so we are clear, by the comment above you agree there are those where 2 John 9-11 should be enforced? It also seems you agree that, like I have been saying this whole time, this 'rejecting' of a person is for more than just making a mistake. It's for serious practiced sin. 2 John 9-11 is not to be applied to those that make a mistake and repent, but must be applied to those that knowingly and willfully go against the example Jesus set without repentance. Don't you agree?

I don't agree nor does Jesus.

Then let this be an example of where Jehovah's Witnesses know and follow the Bible were others don't. Jesus said that those that don't know the scriptures would be in error. Not only that, they don't know the power of God in the scriptures.

"Jesus said to them: “Is not this why you are mistaken, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God?" - Mark 12:24

Also, don't be so quick to speak for Jesus. "For the Father judges no one at all, but he has entrusted all the judging to the Son, so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him." John 5:22, 23.

Just who do you think told John to write what he did? Jesus is charge of the congregation. John was simply following Jesus' command to write what he was told to write. The same person that followed Jesus and was God-Inspired to write the Gospel of John also wrote 2 John 9-11.

"Indeed, that is why we also thank God unceasingly, because when you received God’s word, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but, just as it truthfully is, as the word of God, which is also at work in you believers." 1 Thessalonians 2:13.

Now for the question of Evangelicals vs JWs. Shouldn't the true religion follow the commands in the Bible? Like 2 John 9-11.

Shouldn't those belonging to the true religion believe in the empty tomb resurrection account?

[Claire Evans]

[Replying to post 543 by Claire Evans]

Quite the slippery answer. It is not what asked for.

Context doesn't change the fact that "If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For the one who says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works." - 2 John 9-11

I will ask once more. Do you agree that the above should be enforced? Only yes or no answers, anything else will be considered evading the question.

Argh, maybe you just don't understand the context in the first place? We are talking about little anti-christs here that ought to be rejected. In that context, we should show them the door! Look at the previous scriptures before 9-11:

7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist.

So it's a bit disturbing that you'd consider a disfellowed JW an anti-christ.



And:

Mark 2:13-17New International Version (NIV)

Jesus Calls Levi and Eats With Sinners
13 Once again Jesus went out beside the lake. A large crowd came to him, and he began to teach them. 14 As he walked along, he saw Levi son of Alphaeus sitting at the tax collector’s booth. “Follow me,� Jesus told him, and Levi got up and followed him.

15 While Jesus was having dinner at Levi’s house, many tax collectors and sinners were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. 16 When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?�

17 On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.�

If you context is correct, then Paul is contradicting Jesus.

Now stop evading the empty tomb question, please!

Your example isn't appropriate to the discussion. Why? Because disfellowshipped people DID KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT GOD. The tax collectors and sinners that Jesus ate with had not been taught the truth about God. That is what Jesus was there for---to tell them.

Paul did not contradict Jesus.

No, the disfellowshipped people broke the rules of the WTS. Even though we may know God, it does not mean we won't sin again. And doesn't mean one truly knows God if one belongs to the Christian religion. And this is what Jesus said about brothers in Christ:

Matthew 18:15-17:

"Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector."

Where's the part about shunning?

And your question about the empty tomb was answered by me quite awhile ago.


.

Please post again because I did not see it. Please comment on this:

Matthew 28:13


…12After the chief priests had met with the elders and formed a plan, they gave the soldiers a large sum of money 13and instructed them: “You are to say, ‘His disciples came by night and stole His body while we were asleep. 14If this report reaches the governor, we will satisfy him and keep you out of trouble.�…

If His physical body remained and was still there then why suggest the disciples stole it?

[2timothy316]

Just so we are clear, by the comment above you agree there are those where 2 John 9-11 should be enforced? It also seems you agree that, like I have been saying this whole time, this 'rejecting' of a person is for more than just making a mistake. It's for serious practiced sin. 2 John 9-11 is not to be applied to those that make a mistake and repent, but must be applied to those that knowingly and willfully go against the example Jesus set without repentance. Don't you agree?

I don't agree nor does Jesus.

Then let this be an example of where Jehovah's Witnesses know and follow the Bible were others don't. Jesus said that those that don't know the scriptures would be in error. Not only that, they don't know the power of God in the scriptures.

"Jesus said to them: “Is not this why you are mistaken, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God?" - Mark 12:24

Also, don't be so quick to speak for Jesus. "For the Father judges no one at all, but he has entrusted all the judging to the Son, so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him." John 5:22, 23.

Just who do you think told John to write what he did? Jesus is charge of the congregation. John was simply following Jesus' command to write what he was told to write. The same person that followed Jesus and was God-Inspired to write the Gospel of John also wrote 2 John 9-11.

"Indeed, that is why we also thank God unceasingly, because when you received God’s word, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but, just as it truthfully is, as the word of God, which is also at work in you believers." 1 Thessalonians 2:13.

Now for the question of Evangelicals vs JWs. Shouldn't the true religion follow the commands in the Bible? Like 2 John 9-11.

Shouldn't those belonging to the true religion believe in the empty tomb resurrection account?

Strawman.

You don't agree with John's inspired writings, that is all that matters to me, so if you don't believe John at 2 John 9-11 it's like saying, 'I believe some of John's writings but not his later stuff.' If John is being misleading in any of the scriptures, then why believe in any of his writings? Including the resurrection of Jesus!