Is Jewish Jesus and Christian Christ the same person?

[dio9]

Is Jewish Jesus and Christian Christ the same person?

Point being, Jesus did not fulfill the Jewish expectation for the Messiah. The Christian Christ fulfilled a different role as the sacrificial savior. How do we bridge our Christian Christ with Jewish Jesus?

Do you think Jesus thought of himself as the Divine second person of the holy trinity?

[dio9]

[Replying to post 44 by dio9]

in other words, the earth?

sure , and then in spirit forever. Life you see is eternal, it animates the body for a time. We are actually spirit with a body.

In response to your asking what heaven is ; Heaven is a unity of divine and human , the uncreated resonating within the created. The kingdom of God is happening now for some and it could be happening for more. The kingdom is like a mustard seed. This is the good news.

Beg to differ about being a "spirit with a body." We are bodies with spirit, "spirit" being the force that causes living beings to be alive. When a living being dies, that force no longer is operative upon that body. It "returns" to God in the sense that He was the Source of that life and He is now the future hope of that individual. There is nothing there to indicate that a spirit person left their body and went off somewhere with consciousness, still knowing what was going on. In fact, the Scriptures say that "the dead are conscious of nothing." (Eccles.9:5)

I agree that the Kingdom is "like a mustard seed" that grows to be a mighty tree that reaches throughout the whole earth. The Kingdom will reign over the earth....a real government with real subjects and laws and territory. (Matt.13:31) It will destroy all man-made governments and it will rule forever. (Daniel 2:44)



"The God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever." (Dan.2:44, NASB)

sure Gods kingdom is all around us already , always has been like the rest of the animal plant and mineral kingdoms , according to scripture humans are the only creatures to have left God's kingdom and God's problem has been how to get them back in. This is it , for anyone with open eyes and ears and minds.
As for whether we are spirits with bodies or bodies with spirits is a philosophical issue. Let me start a new line hopefully to see what others may think.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 69 by onewithhim]



[center]
Another example of how bizarre "religious English" is.[/center]

Beg to differ about being a "spirit with a body." We are bodies with spirit

Beg to notice that this is nothing but a semantic quibble.

Is this a forum with a cat, or a cat in a forum?
Same THING.

Maybe different way of putting it in English.
But they are IDENTICAL in meaning.

Religious English...
Whataryagonnado?

[onewithhim]

And wouldn't sons of God naturally live in the kingdom heaven?

What is God's kingdom?

Are you saying you don't know?
What I say is a son of God can live nowhere else. The kingdom of God is where the sons and daughters of God live. Are we there yet? No , but John 1:11 says Christ gives us the power to be sons (and daughters) of God.

My friend, JehovahsWitness, certainly knows what God's Kingdom is; most people do not, and I'm sure that's why the question was asked of you.

The churches have dropped the ball on this one, unfortunately. People aren't being taught that God's Kingdom is an actual government with its headquarters in heaven. It has territory over which it rules (the earth), it has laws, it has subjects (or, citizens), and it has a ruler (like a king, president, prime minister, etc.). God's government's ruler is Jesus Christ. He will rule the earth from his headquarters in heaven, similarly to a president ruling from Washington, D.C., over his citizens near and far. The Bible depicts Jesus Christ and his government as the only hope for the peace and longevity and happiness of mankind. That is why we have been taught by Christ to pray like he prayed at Matthew 6:9,10:

"After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven ." (KJV)


And then, speaking of Jesus and his co-rulers:

"...Thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us for God with thy blood, out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and hast made them for our God a kingdom and priests, and they shall reign over the earth." (The Apocalypse: 5:9,10; "Holy Trinity" Edition of the Catholic Bible, 1951.)

Well yes sure this is a vision of the "Christian kingdom of heaven" but not the historic Jewish expectation and hope.

Forgive me for not retaining what you've said in past posts, but explain why you disagree that Jesus is the Messiah of the Old Testament.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 44 by dio9]

in other words, the earth?

sure , and then in spirit forever. Life you see is eternal, it animates the body for a time. We are actually spirit with a body.

In response to your asking what heaven is ; Heaven is a unity of divine and human , the uncreated resonating within the created. The kingdom of God is happening now for some and it could be happening for more. The kingdom is like a mustard seed. This is the good news.

Beg to differ about being a "spirit with a body." We are bodies with spirit, "spirit" being the force that causes living beings to be alive. When a living being dies, that force no longer is operative upon that body. It "returns" to God in the sense that He was the Source of that life and He is now the future hope of that individual. There is nothing there to indicate that a spirit person left their body and went off somewhere with consciousness, still knowing what was going on. In fact, the Scriptures say that "the dead are conscious of nothing." (Eccles.9:5)

I agree that the Kingdom is "like a mustard seed" that grows to be a mighty tree that reaches throughout the whole earth. The Kingdom will reign over the earth....a real government with real subjects and laws and territory. (Matt.13:31) It will destroy all man-made governments and it will rule forever. (Daniel 2:44)



"The God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever." (Dan.2:44, NASB)

sure Gods kingdom is all around us already , always has been like the rest of the animal plant and mineral kingdoms , according to scripture humans are the only creatures to have left God's kingdom and God's problem has been how to get them back in. This is it , for anyone with open eyes and ears and minds.
As for whether we are spirits with bodies or bodies with spirits is a philosophical issue. Let me start a new line hopefully to see what others may think.

But this ISN'T "it" for the human race. This planet is being ruined by mankind and the pollution is overwhelming. Jehovah is going to "bring to ruin those who are ruining the earth." (Revelation 11:18b) He won't leave it as it's going now. We'll have a true paradise. It was supposed to be a paradise for humans from the beginning, and it will be again.

The Messiah will "strike the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips he will slay the wicked. Also righteousness will be the belt about his loins, and faithfulness the belt about his waist. And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, and the leopard will lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the young lion and the fatling will feed together; and a little boy will lead them....The nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra, and the weaned child will put his hand on the viper's den. They will not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of [Jehovah] as the waters cover the sea." (Isaiah 11:4-9, NASB)