The age of miracles

[Athetotheist]

It's not really my intention to make a whole thread out of this; I just mean to pose a question as a point of curiosity: Can anyone refer me to textual evidence that the age of miracles was to end with the passing of the apostles?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 67 by tam]

Of course. I am remiss by saying that Satan passed on things of the spirit. What I should've said was that no miraculous things are happening today except by the cunning and supernatural powers of Satan and the demons. They are the ones who perform many things that SEEM like they are coming from God. They can make a statue cry or drip blood. They can appear to someone as a dead loved one. They make people babble in unintelligible gibberish, thinking they are speaking in the tongues of angels.

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 62 by onewithhim]

They had seen MANY miracles. Yet their confidence waned and they even made a calf idol to dance around. So your argument would be that there never were any miracles?

If I had actually seen "MANY miracles" I am certain my confidence would not have waned. You have made a reasonable case for those miracles never having occurred.

You are simply believing that those accounts are not true. Again I say that you are dismissing the Bible out of hand. That is not a valid position to take on this forum, especially when you have nothing solid to base your premise on. All you can say is "that never happened."

You have not responded to what I actually said. I'm suggesting that there is a contradiction in your argument. Why would anyone who had seen MANY miracles lose their confidence? It doesn't make sense. People even nowadays profess stronger and stronger faith with nothing anywhere near as compelling as having witnessed many miracles.

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 67 by tam]

Of course. I am remiss by saying that Satan passed on things of the spirit. What I should've said was that no miraculous things are happening today except by the cunning and supernatural powers of Satan and the demons. They are the ones who perform many things that SEEM like they are coming from God. They can make a statue cry or drip blood. They can appear to someone as a dead loved one. They make people babble in unintelligible gibberish, thinking they are speaking in the tongues of angels.

Just how do you decide which signs are from God and which are from Satan?
Please present your criteria and explain how they are applied.

[Red Wolf]

[Replying to post 65 by Red Wolf]

I believe that demons exist.

How can you be sure that they don't?

Do you check under your bed before you go to sleep?

[Red Wolf]

[Replying to post 62 by onewithhim]

They had seen MANY miracles. Yet their confidence waned and they even made a calf idol to dance around. So your argument would be that there never were any miracles?

If I had actually seen "MANY miracles" I am certain my confidence would not have waned. You have made a reasonable case for those miracles never having occurred. It seems to me that Christians back up their faith with far less than experiencing any of the sorts of miracles recounted in the Bible. In fact it mostly stems from simply believing that those accounts are true. Not much of a hook to hang your hat on.

You are simply believing that those accounts are not true. Again I say that you are dismissing the Bible out of hand. That is not a valid position to take on this forum, especially when you have nothing solid to base your premise on. All you can say is "that never happened."

I also feel that I would not have had my confidence negatively affected if I had seen the miracles that the Jews saw, and there were a few that held their confidence. But the majority gave way to doubt and disobedience. We can observe that situation in a sense today. The majority of people on Earth do not put their trust in Jehovah, the God of the Bible. They want what they want, when they want it.

Jesus told the people of his generation...."" "An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet"" [Matthew 12:39] The sign of Jonah referred to his supposed resurrection. But besides this, Jesus promised no signs to his generation. Aren't miracles signs? So was Jesus lying when he said he would not perform any signs, or miracles? Or as I contend, this is proof that Jesus did not perform any miracles.

One reference book explains it this way:

"During Jesus' ministry he performed numerous signs that helped many to believe in him. (John 2:23) But the signs did not produce faith in hardhearted ones. (Luke 2:34; John 11:47,53; 12:37; compare Num.14:11,22) When on two occasions religious leaders asked Jesus to display to them a sign from heaven, they likely were demanding that he perform, as proof that he was the Messiah, the sign foretold at Daniel 7:13,14, namely, the 'son of man' appearing with the clouds of the heavens to take his Kingdom power.['The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.' But it was not God's time for that prophecy to be fulfilled, and Christ would not perform a showy display merely to gratify their selfish demand. (Matt.12:38; 16:1) Rather, he told them that the only sign that would be given them was 'the sign of Jonah the prophet.'...Jesus' generation had the 'sign of Jonah' when Christ spent parts of three days in the grave and was resurrected....In this, Christ was a sign to that generation, but even that did not convince most of the Jews. (Luke 11:30; I Corinthians 1:22)"


So, Jesus performed many signs/miracles, but the Jews were always after him to do more. Even the sign of Jonah didn't impress them.

(Insight on the Scriptures, Vol.2, p.941)

We are all familiar with the story of the woman who was bleeding.
""And a woman who had been suffering from a hemorrhage for twelve years, came up behind Him and touched the fringe of His cloak;
for she was saying to herself, "If I only touch His garment, I will get well." [Matthew 9:20-21] The woman says to herself..." "If I only touch His garment, I will get well."" My question is ...How did the author of Matthew's gospel know what the woman was thinking? I contend that this is just more evidence of the fraudulent nature of these supposed miracles.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 62 by onewithhim]

They had seen MANY miracles. Yet their confidence waned and they even made a calf idol to dance around. So your argument would be that there never were any miracles?

If I had actually seen "MANY miracles" I am certain my confidence would not have waned. You have made a reasonable case for those miracles never having occurred.

You are simply believing that those accounts are not true. Again I say that you are dismissing the Bible out of hand. That is not a valid position to take on this forum, especially when you have nothing solid to base your premise on. All you can say is "that never happened."

You have not responded to what I actually said. I'm suggesting that there is a contradiction in your argument. Why would anyone who had seen MANY miracles lose their confidence? It doesn't make sense. People even nowadays profess stronger and stronger faith with nothing anywhere near as compelling as having witnessed many miracles.

I think I have responded to all of your thoughts and questions. I didn't mean to leave any out.

How can you not believe that the people in Jesus' day or in the Exodus' day could lose their faith, when the angel who became Satan saw the creation of the entire universe and yet turned against Jehovah? People and angels can get wrapped up in their own selfish desires and turn against anything that stands in their way.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 67 by tam]

Of course. I am remiss by saying that Satan passed on things of the spirit. What I should've said was that no miraculous things are happening today except by the cunning and supernatural powers of Satan and the demons. They are the ones who perform many things that SEEM like they are coming from God. They can make a statue cry or drip blood. They can appear to someone as a dead loved one. They make people babble in unintelligible gibberish, thinking they are speaking in the tongues of angels.

Just how do you decide which signs are from God and which are from Satan?
Please present your criteria and explain how they are applied.

I decide by what the Bible says. In addition to that, I have seen many examples of "miracles" throughout my 70 years on this earth, and I have always thought something was fishy. Since I was 8 years old and saw Oral Roberts on T.V. That man gave me the creeps. There are a whole lot more of instances I could talk about.

I have explained what I think about miracles and signs in previous posts. I'd appreciate it if you would perhaps read through the posts on this thread.

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 77 by onewithhim]

I decide by what the Bible says.

The Bible doesn't tell us anything about miraculous events being reported today. How do you know that any of them are not from God but the work of Satan instead? If there are no miraculous wonders being performed by God today, then the alleged miraculous cures attributed to prayers answered by God must be delusions performed by Satan. You haven't described how you can actually tell the difference.

In addition to that, I have seen many examples of "miracles" throughout my 70 years on this earth, and I have always thought something was fishy.

You would be at home among the Israelites when they left Egypt. They too had seen MANY miracles and yet their confidence waned. Perhaps they too felt that something was fishy.

[Red Wolf]

Wishful thinking often leads to a miracle.
I witnessed the proclaiming of a miracle.

Several years ago, I attended a Bible Study at the home of one of the brothers of my church. It was late afternoon, and we were sitting in a circle in the living room. From my seat, I could see down a hallway from off the living room where there were bedroom doors in this hallway.

As the sun was going down I noticed that the sun was shinning from a bedroom window on to the wall in the hallway. As a truck or large vehicle rode by the house it would block the sun and the shadow would move across the wall of the hallway.

As I was watching a shadow move down the hallway, the woman sitting next to me jumped up and screamed, “�I just saw an Angel in the hallway��
Another woman jumped up “� I saw it also��

Everyone at the Bible Study jumped up and crowded into the hallway searching for the Angel.

By the time everyone was back in their seats, the sun was down, and it would have been useless to try and explain what had happened. They were all convinced that an Angel had visited our Bible Study.

By Sunday Service, it was official, the Pastor announced “�An Angel has visited our Bible Study. Praise God!��

That's how you get a Christian Miracle.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 77 by onewithhim]

I decide by what the Bible says.

The Bible doesn't tell us anything about miraculous events being reported today. How do you know that any of them are not from God but the work of Satan instead? If there are no miraculous wonders being performed by God today, then the alleged miraculous cures attributed to prayers answered by God must be delusions performed by Satan. You haven't described how you can actually tell the difference.

But I have described such. I asked you to kindly go over all the posts on this thread. Then there won't be a lot of redundancy.