The Gospel of Jesus vs the Gospel of Jehovah

[Johan]

Depending on who you "think" the Living God is you have a "Gospel" from Him. And it is a huge problem to many.

viewtopic.php?p=1178624#p1178624

So who is He? Jesus or Jehovah/Yahweh? There can not be 2 Gods. One is a liar. So let us see what Jesus says about "His Gospel". And let us see what Jehovah says about "His Gospel".

A "contest" between the "2 Gods"? Sure. The Living God does not fear it. In fact He Loves it.

Let the Fire Fall! Because the Real God answers in "Fire" and is not scared to be "challenged". In Fact the "challenge belongs to Him. Because the Victory too.

1 Kings 18: 21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the Lord be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.*n5
22 Then said Elijah unto the people, I, even I only, remain a prophet of the Lord; but Baal’s prophets are four hundred and fifty men.
23 Let them therefore give us two bullocks; and let them choose one bullock for themselves, and cut it in pieces, and lay it on wood, and put no fire under: and I will dress the other bullock, and lay it on wood, and put no fire under:
24 And call ye on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of the Lord: and the God that answereth by fire, let him be God. And all the people answered and said, It is well spoken.*n6
25 And Elijah said unto the prophets of Baal, Choose you one bullock for yourselves, and dress it first; for ye are many; and call on the name of your gods, but put no fire under.
26 And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered. And they leaped upon the altar which was made.*n7*n8*n9
27 And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked.*n10*n11*n12
28 And they cried aloud, and cut themselves after their manner with knives and lancets, till the blood gushed out upon them.*n13
29 And it came to pass, when midday was past, and they prophesied until the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that there was neither voice, nor any to answer, nor any that regarded.*n14*n15

30 And Elijah said unto all the people, Come near unto me.

So what is the Gospel of Jesus? And what is the Gospel of Jehovah?

[Johan]

Men and religion twist the gospel (good news), that is correct.

Yep. And there is only one Way to know the Truth. By being in a Relationship with the Living God and hearing from Him personally.

God is also love. It sounds as if you are saying that, and if so, that is also correct.

Yep, God is Love. That we see in His Gospel. To give Himself a body in Mary by which He could die to save us from our sinning wretched human existence.

But God's Son - Christ Jaheshua is alive. He exists, He lives, He speaks. He is His own person.

If Yaheshua is alive then he has a meager Love Life with His Dad. Because He is then not Holy to Him as we are. He never died for His Dad to be Holy unto Him as we are. And neither has His Dad died for Him to be "Holy unto Him". Thus there is not Holiness between the two of them. And thus He can not exist in the Holy Spirit as we do.

And of course if He is "Jesus" then we have "no Name and no Identity". Which happened by the denominations and organizations where they stole it from us and gave it to their "god Jesus" in heaven. Which is of course the "Beast with the 2 horns". With His "worship fire".

Rev. 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

We can become sons of our Father in heaven, yes. We can be gathered in to the Body of Christ, yes. But we are not the Head of that Body. The Head of that Body is the Son of God, God's heir.

Jesus is the Word of God by which we are born again and by which we are raised in the Life of God our "Abba Father/Daddy", Jehovah. And our Daddy is the Head of His Family.

Speaking of heirs, Paul said:
Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
How can you be a co-heir with someone who is not real?

We are "heirs of God". He is our inheritance. He gave Himself to us as our Daddy. And now He belongs to us in a birth. This can never by "undone". He is the Greatness of our inheritance in us growing up in a Relationship with Him as His Son in the Name of Jesus. Or said different. We are growing up as His Son, Jesus. Born and Raised by the Word of Jesus which He Lived on earth in Jesus His Body.

[Johan]

Men and religion twist the gospel (good news), that is correct.

Man is Lucifer. He twisted the Gospel of Jehovah and made it a "Gospel of Jesus". It is an evil gospel. Which you seem to believe in. So after you saw the evil side of it you seem to want to take some of it and make your own "Gospel of Jesus". You are welcome. Give it to us. See if you can twist again in another direction in order for it to be come something like a "Gospel". Your turn, Meerkat.

[Johan]

I love the way you tell only half the story, always leaving out certain details.

You are welcome to tell the other half, Brother.

I know you probably hate discussing this verse because certain cults have distorted it, confusing others. the verse is John 1:1,

The Truth never fears the lie, Brother. It is vice versa.

Now, do me a favor: when you respond, use what I wrote so others can compare your response to what I have declared from Scripture.

They have it already, Brother. They have the "Gospel of Jesus" and now the "Gospel of Jehovah". Where all agreed that the summary in the pic is really the "Gospel of Jesus as is brought by the denominations and organizations in Christianity. Which is clearly the "Gospel of Lucifer", Brother.

If you don't, I will write a separate thread on this important matter and expose the corruption of certain cults. So, like you said, "Let's let the fire fall."

By all means, Brother. See if you can correct "The Gospel of Jesus" and make is somehow sound like Love and Grace and Real Saving from "Jesus". You might just be "saved from his hell" for your "hard work" to try and cover up "His Gospel of hatred".

Jesus surely has his "fire of worship", of the "beast with the two horns", Brother.

Rev. 13: 11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

[tam]

Peace to you,

Men and religion twist the gospel (good news), that is correct.

Yep. And there is only one Way to know the Truth. By being in a Relationship with the Living God and hearing from Him personally.

Christ is Himself the Way and the Truth, yes?

"I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life."

Paul once persecuted the Way (Acts 22:4; Acts 9:4-5), but later worshiped according to the Way (Christ).

So if one wants to know truth - then one should be listening to Christ (which is also what the Father told us to do: "This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to Him.)

And if one wants to come to the Father, then one must come to Christ.

"No one comes to the Father except through me."

What is interesting is that this is all the same statement. John 14:6

God is also love. It sounds as if you are saying that, and if so, that is also correct.

Yep, God is Love. That we see in His Gospel. To give Himself a body in Mary by which He could die to save us from our sinning wretched human existence.

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Why do so many people feel the need to change this?

This is how God’s love was revealed among us: God sent His one and only Son into the world, so that we might live through Him. / And love consists in this: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son as the atoning sacrifice for our sins.

But God's Son - Christ Jaheshua is alive. He exists, He lives, He speaks. He is His own person.

If Yaheshua is alive then he has a meager Love Life with His Dad. Because He is then not Holy to Him as we are. He never died for His Dad to be Holy unto Him as we are. And neither has His Dad died for Him to be "Holy unto Him". Thus there is not Holiness between the two of them. And thus He can not exist in the Holy Spirit as we do.

None of this makes sense. None of this is what Christ (or even the apostles) taught.

Because Christ is ALIVE - He has a relationship with His Father. That relationship is one of love between the Father and the Son. Christ died out of love and obedience to His Father, and out of love for us.

He is also the Temple within whom God dwells. (John 2:19-21) Do you think God dwells within a temple that is not holy?

And of course if He is "Jesus" then we have "no Name and no Identity".

So instead you wish to steal His name (though that name is not "Jesus") and identity for yourselves??!!

**

This is one reason to test the inspired expression, Johan (and anyone reading). To hold this (and all things) up to the Light (Christ is that Light).

“Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many."

“If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

Christ is going to return; He, Himself. Every eye will see it. No one will need to guess. It will be a visible event.

In another post, Johan, you put up the words of Paul and others to (inaccurately) suggest that men should be following men instead of following Christ (even though Christ said explicitly that His sheep follow HIM). So did any of those men (the apostles or Paul) ever claim that they were "Jesus" and that this was the "second coming"?

Because this is what Paul said:

By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Thess 4:16-17

Then also:

Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord—[Jesus], who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit."

So Christ appeared to Paul (Paul is one witness and Ananias is another); and it was Christ who sent Ananias to Paul.

How could He have done that if He was not alive?

Not to mention that the Revelation given to John has Christ speaking and appearing.

Which happened by the denominations and organizations where they stole it from us and gave it to their "god Jesus" in heaven. Which is of course the "Beast with the 2 horns". With His "worship fire".

Rev. 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Johan, you're just changing the theft from denominations and organizations to men claiming to be [Jesus] in his second coming.

I don't disagree with you about denominations and organizations per se ("LOOKS like a lamb... SOUNDS like a dragon - aka, speaks LIES). But what about the men you have listened to? Because you are literally saying that you (and they) are the REAL [Jesus], and the second coming. You are also saying things that contradict Christ. Something that contradicts Christ - the Truth - CANNOT be true. It must be a lie.

Black and white here, Johan.

"My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me." John 10:27

We can become sons of our Father in heaven, yes. We can be gathered in to the Body of Christ, yes. But we are not the Head of that Body. The Head of that Body is the Son of God, God's heir.

Jesus is the Word of God by which we are born again and by which we are raised in the Life of God our "Abba Father/Daddy", Jehovah. And our Daddy is the Head of His Family.

God is the Head of Christ, yes, and Christ is the Head of the Body, the Church (the Bride.)

Speaking of heirs, Paul said:
Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
How can you be a co-heir with someone who is not real?

We are "heirs of God". He is our inheritance. He gave Himself to us as our Daddy. And now He belongs to us in a birth. This can never by "undone". He is the Greatness of our inheritance in us growing up in a Relationship with Him as His Son in the Name of Jesus. Or said different. We are growing up as His Son, Jesus. Born and Raised by the Word of Jesus which He Lived on earth in Jesus His Body.

I'm not sure you answered the question. How can you be a co-heir with someone who is not real?


Peace again to you.

[Johan]

So if one wants to know truth - then one should be listening to Christ which is also what the Father told us to do: "This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to Him.

And if one wants to come to the Father, then one must come to Christ.

"No one comes to the Father except through me."

I agree. We have to accept the Word of God which is Jesus and allow it to create us to be the Real Jesus. Where being Jesus is the Great Saving Grace of Jehovah which saves us from the real hell which is human existence and not some kind of hell "in heaven". Of course if we don't accept our saving then our "hell" will also be in heaven in being still a wretched, sinning human being. Just worse off because we rejected God's Saving Grace in Jesus.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries. 28 A man that hath set at nought Moses’ law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

God is also love. It sounds as if you are saying that, and if so, that is also correct.

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Why do so many people feel the need to change this?

This is how God’s love was revealed among us: God sent His one and only Son into the world, so that we might live through Him. / And love consists in this: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son as the atoning sacrifice for our sins.

I totally agree. God became the Son so that we could have His Word on the Son which creates the Life of the Son in us. And as Jesus we are perfectly saved from our sins. Through our Father, Jehovah, who died in Jesus for us. In that body He created for Himself in Mary to be able to die for us.

None of this makes sense. None of this is what Christ (or even the apostles) taught.

Sure. It should not make sense because it was not spoken and lived to be "sense". It was spoken and lived to be the Word of our Creation. Which comes to us in Revelation only.

1 Cor. 2: 4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

So instead you wish to steal His name (though that name is not "Jesus") and identity for yourselves??!!

It is vice versa. The organizations and denominations stole our Life and Identity Jehovah gave us. Thus in those fake "churches" all have no Life and no Identity. They are slaves to the "robbers". Paying them to rob them. The most foolish existence ever on this planet.

“If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. [/color]

Christ is going to return; He, Himself. Every eye will see it. No one will need to guess. It will be a visible event.

Sure. All are Jesus and many will believe and be Him all over the earth.

In another post, Johan, you put up the words of Paul and others to (inaccurately) suggest that men should be following men instead of following Christ (even though Christ said explicitly that His sheep follow HIM). So did any of those men (the apostles or Paul) ever claim that they were "Jesus" and that this was the "second coming"?

Sure all should follow those who is Jesus to become Jesus too. That is following "Jesus". Perfectly.

We can become sons of our Father in heaven, yes.

Yep. You are the Son of God in Heaven. And your Name is Jesus Christ. Now you have the Fullness of the Gospel of Jesus. Or do you think I have a Greater Gospel than God? Surely Greater than the "Gospel of Jesus" with his slavery. Where Lucifer twisted the Gospel to be worshiped as "pastor, bishop, evangelist, pope" etc.

[tam]

Peace again to you all,

So if one wants to know truth - then one should be listening to Christ which is also what the Father told us to do: "This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to Him.

And if one wants to come to the Father, then one must come to Christ.

"No one comes to the Father except through me."

I agree. We have to accept the Word of God which is Jesus and allow it to create us to be the Real Jesus.

No, that is not what Christ said.

You are spinning His words to support whatever doctrine you have accepted from other men.

Where being Jesus is the Great Saving Grace of Jehovah which saves us from the real hell which is human existence and not some kind of hell "in heaven". Of course if we don't accept our saving then our "hell" will also be in heaven in being still a wretched, sinning human being. Just worse off because we rejected God's Saving Grace in Jesus.

This sounds like you are just spinning off the false teaching of 'hell' from denominations and sects.

The "real hell" is simply the world of the dead, not a place of suffering, but simply a place where the people there 'sleep' until the resurrection of the dead.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries. 28 A man that hath set at nought Moses’ law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

You quote Hebrews but you ignore everything the author said that speaks of the living Christ - who is alive and at the right hand of His Father:

Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24 but because [Jesus] lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely[c] those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them. Hebrews 7: 23-25

Not you. Not the men you follow.

Christ Himself.

Who warned us AGAINST being deceived by this exact thing that you are claiming.

Need more?

Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven,[f] Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin. Hebrews 5: 14-15

That cannot be talking about you or the men you follow.

We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, 20 where our forerunner, [Jesus], has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek. Hebrews 6:19-20

Now the main point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, 2 and who serves in the sanctuary, the true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by a mere human being. Hebrews 8:1-2

That is not you. That is not the men you follow.

None of this makes sense. None of this is what Christ (or even the apostles) taught.

Sure. It should not make sense because it was not spoken and lived to be "sense". It was spoken and lived to be the Word of our Creation. Which comes to us in Revelation only.

Except - again - none of it is what Christ taught. None of it is what the apostles taught.

But this is what happens when you follow and listen to men - instead of following and listening to Christ.

1 Cor. 2: 4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

And here, once again, you quote the author of Corinthians (Paul)... but ignore everything he said about the living - and existing - Christ. Paul heard the living Christ (after his death and resurrection and ascension)... the first time on the road to Damascus. Ananias heard the living Christ when Christ told him to go to Paul.

And Paul is the one who clearly states that he (and the Christians then) were WAITING for Christ to return. Not that they were, themselves, [Jesus].

They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, 10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath. 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10

May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord [Jesus] comes with all his holy ones. 1 Thessalonians 3:13

According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 1 Thesalonians 4:15-17

So instead you wish to steal His name (though that name is not "Jesus") and identity for yourselves??!!

It is vice versa.

You have LITERALLY done this very thing.

“If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. [/color]

Christ is going to return; He, Himself. Every eye will see it. No one will need to guess. It will be a visible event.

Sure. All are Jesus and many will believe and be Him all over the earth.

Nope.

Not 'many will be him.'

EVERY eye will SEE Him - Christ Himself.


“Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many.

In another post, Johan, you put up the words of Paul and others to (inaccurately) suggest that men should be following men instead of following Christ (even though Christ said explicitly that His sheep follow HIM). So did any of those men (the apostles or Paul) ever claim that they were "Jesus" and that this was the "second coming"?

Sure all should follow those who is Jesus to become Jesus too. That is following "Jesus". Perfectly.

You did not answer the question.

Did any of those men (the apostles or Paul) claim that they were "Jesus" and that this was the "second coming."

Because I quoted Paul saying exactly the opposite. That they were WAITING for the second coming. Peter as well speaks of the coming of the Lord - something yet to come.

They did, however, claim to be servants/slaves of Christ.

We can become sons of our Father in heaven, yes.

Yep. You are the Son of God in Heaven.

A son. Not THE Son.

And your Name is Jesus Christ.

It most definitely is not.

Now you have the Fullness of the Gospel of Jesus.

Wait - a minute ago you were saying that the 'gospel of Jesus' was evil.

I'm not sure even you know what you are talking about.

Or do you think I have a Greater Gospel than God?

I think you have a variation of the 'gospel of Jesus' that you have been repudiating, and calling 'evil.'

[Johan]

I think you have a variation of the 'gospel of Jesus' that you have been repudiating, and calling 'evil.'

What is also Great about the Gospel of the Living God, Jehovah, is that He Himself spread it. And He Himself stand in for it. That is why He could say we don't strife with it. We just Witness it, Jesus. Because that is the "Holy Kiss" to you in greeting you in the Name of Jesus.

2 Tim. 2: 14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

It is all about the "hearers", Jesus. And they will decide what to believe and what not according to the guidance of their "Abba Father/Daddy", Jehovah. So we don't need to do strife which the "Baby Gods" do.

1 Cor 3: 1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? 5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

I got my opportunity to speak and you got yours. And now everyone will decide what is Great to them to take to heart. And we can go on to other topics. Which is countless. To enjoy some more Truth from the Living God, Jehovah. So maybe we can take now the topic on The Mother of Jesus.

viewtopic.php?t=42723.

Which is obviously your Mother in you being the Real Jesus now with a Mommy and Daddy, Jesus. And then we can also take a look at the beast with the 2 horns and its "image". Which is "God Jesus" worshiped in heaven with his "fake worship fire". A creation of the beast, man with the gospel of the 2 horns/laws vs the gospel of man in the OT with its 10 horns/laws.

viewtopic.php?p=1179549#p1179549