Paradise on Earth

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onewithhim
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Paradise on Earth

Post #1

Post by onewithhim »

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #2171

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:30 pm
tam wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:06 pm

(and this still overlooks the fact that Paul mentioned 'we who are alive and who remain')
paul wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:41 pm ....we who are alive and remain ---> will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air...
tam wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:41 pm we ...we will not all die
Yes....
SCRIPTURES SAYS ....
The same verses that state 'we will not all sleep' (meaning we will not all die), and that 'we who are alive and who remain'... are from the exact same person who wrote the other verses you have posted. In the rest, Paul is just emphasizing that the dead will indeed rise, that there is indeed a resurrection (that is the context), that THIS flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom (true), but that we will be CHANGED. We will not all sleep (we will not all die), but we will all be changed. Both those who have died before Christ returns AND those who are alive at the time He returns.

We will be changed from this body (which has sin and death in it) to the new body (the white robe; the spirit body; that has no sin or death in it, but only LIFE in it). The perishable to the imperishable. The mortal to the immortal.



1 CORINTHIANS 15:50 - English Standard Version

I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable
1 CORINTHIANS 15: 35, 36, 44

Yes, with what sort of body are they coming?” You unreasonable person! What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies ... It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body.
[

We will not all sleep.

From the exact same talk:

For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost.

Paul is talking about those who have died in Christ. He is not talking about those who have taken a snooze in Christ <- that would make no sense at all.

Sleep = death.

We will not all sleep = we will not all die.







Peace again to you.
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- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #2172

Post by JehovahsWitness »

paul wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:41 pm We will not all sleep
tam wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:46 pm... meaning we will not all die
SCRIPTURE SAYS
1 CORINTHIANS 15: 35, 36, 44

Yes, with what sort of body are they coming?” You unreasonable person! What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies ... It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body.
tam wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:41 pm we ...we will not all die

Your opinion has been noted

JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #2173

Post by tam »

Peace again to you.
JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:59 pm
paul wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:41 pm We will not all sleep
tam wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:46 pm... meaning we will not all die


Your opinion has been noted

JW
Christ used the same metaphor when describing Lazarus as having fallen asleep, though Lazarus had actually died.

So if you want to say it is merely my opinion, well then, I guess your opinion has been noted.


After he had said this, he went on to tell them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up.”

His disciples replied, “Lord, if he is sleeping, he will get better.” They thought that [Jesus] was talking about actual sleep, but He was speaking about the death of Lazarus.

So [Jesus] told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead,



Peace again.
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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #2174

Post by JehovahsWitness »

tam wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:10 pm
So if you want to say it is merely my opinion, well then, I guess your opinion has been noted.
1 CORINTHIANS 15: 35, 36, 44

You unreasonable person! What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies ... It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body.
tam wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:41 pm we ...we will not all die
Your opinion has been noted, thanks for sharing,


JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #2175

Post by tam »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:21 pm
tam wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:10 pm
So if you want to say it is merely my opinion, well then, I guess your opinion has been noted.
1 CORINTHIANS 15: 35, 36, 44

You unreasonable person! What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies ... It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body.
tam wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:41 pm we ...we will not all die
Your opinion has been noted, thanks for sharing,


JW
In addition to Christ describing death as 'sleep' (as the example in the previous post shows - which is no mere opinion, and which should be enough), Paul also compared sleep to death in the very same passages as you have quoted above (again, as previous posts have also clearly shown).

So if that is just an opinion, it was Paul's long before it was mine.


Peace again to you and to you all.
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- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #2176

Post by 2ndpillar2 »

tam wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:10 pm Peace again to you.
JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:59 pm
paul wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:41 pm We will not all sleep
tam wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:46 pm... meaning we will not all die


Your opinion has been noted

JW
Christ used the same metaphor when describing Lazarus as having fallen asleep, though Lazarus had actually died.

So if you want to say it is merely my opinion, well then, I guess your opinion has been noted.


After he had said this, he went on to tell them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up.”

His disciples replied, “Lord, if he is sleeping, he will get better.” They thought that [Jesus] was talking about actual sleep, but He was speaking about the death of Lazarus.

So [Jesus] told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead,



Peace again.
Is Lazarus alive today, or did he die? Are Paul and his listeners dead today, or down at the pawn shop trying to scope a bargain? Does everyone die for their own iniquities (Jeremiah 31:30), or does someone die for them, so they can live until they die? What is your actual message? Or more interesting, the JWs apparently, do not sleep once they die, how does that work, when the dead cannot think (Ecclesiastes), not that you are a JW, but you might know?

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #2177

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to tam in post #2175]
The people with the earthly hope will not all have died when Armageddon comes, but those with the heavenly hope will have died, so they can come back with Christ when he comes to wage God's war at Armageddon. That is what a close examination of the scriptures tells us.

.

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #2178

Post by onewithhim »

2ndpillar2 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:12 pm
tam wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:10 pm Peace again to you.
JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:59 pm
paul wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:41 pm We will not all sleep
tam wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:46 pm... meaning we will not all die


Your opinion has been noted

JW
Christ used the same metaphor when describing Lazarus as having fallen asleep, though Lazarus had actually died.

So if you want to say it is merely my opinion, well then, I guess your opinion has been noted.


After he had said this, he went on to tell them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up.”

His disciples replied, “Lord, if he is sleeping, he will get better.” They thought that [Jesus] was talking about actual sleep, but He was speaking about the death of Lazarus.

So [Jesus] told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead,



Peace again.
Is Lazarus alive today, or did he die? Are Paul and his listeners dead today, or down at the pawn shop trying to scope a bargain? Does everyone die for their own iniquities (Jeremiah 31:30), or does someone die for them, so they can live until they die? What is your actual message? Or more interesting, the JWs apparently, do not sleep once they die, how does that work, when the dead cannot think (Ecclesiastes), not that you are a JW, but you might know?
Lazarus is dead. Jesus brought him back to live out his natural life. Paul and other co-rulers with Christ are now in heaven preparing for the new system to come in the near future. JWs DO "sleep" when they die, unless they are born-again to live in heaven as co-rulers with Christ. Those of us who will live on Earth forever "sleep" until the Resurrection (the 2nd one), if we should die. The anointed born-again people used to "sleep" in their graves, but when 1918 arrived all in their graves were resurrected to meet Jesus in heaven. Now all the anointed are resurrected immediately when they die.

So the situation is now, when people die:

People with the earthly hope => asleep in death
People with heavenly hope => immediately taken to heaven

There are two resurrections.....the first one is for the anointed who will be in heaven, the second one is for the physical earthly people. The first one is before the 1,000 year reign. The second is during the 1,000 year reign.

.

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #2179

Post by 2ndpillar2 »

onewithhim wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:23 am
2ndpillar2 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:12 pm
tam wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:10 pm Peace again to you.
JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:59 pm
paul wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:41 pm We will not all sleep
tam wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:46 pm... meaning we will not all die


Your opinion has been noted

JW
Christ used the same metaphor when describing Lazarus as having fallen asleep, though Lazarus had actually died.

So if you want to say it is merely my opinion, well then, I guess your opinion has been noted.


After he had said this, he went on to tell them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up.”

His disciples replied, “Lord, if he is sleeping, he will get better.” They thought that [Jesus] was talking about actual sleep, but He was speaking about the death of Lazarus.

So [Jesus] told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead,



Peace again.
Is Lazarus alive today, or did he die? Are Paul and his listeners dead today, or down at the pawn shop trying to scope a bargain? Does everyone die for their own iniquities (Jeremiah 31:30), or does someone die for them, so they can live until they die? What is your actual message? Or more interesting, the JWs apparently, do not sleep once they die, how does that work, when the dead cannot think (Ecclesiastes), not that you are a JW, but you might know?
Lazarus is dead. Jesus brought him back to live out his natural life. Paul and other co-rulers with Christ are now in heaven preparing for the new system to come in the near future. JWs DO "sleep" when they die, unless they are born-again to live in heaven as co-rulers with Christ. Those of us who will live on Earth forever "sleep" until the Resurrection (the 2nd one), if we should die. The anointed born-again people used to "sleep" in their graves, but when 1918 arrived all in their graves were resurrected to meet Jesus in heaven. Now all the anointed are resurrected immediately when they die.

So the situation is now, when people die:

People with the earthly hope => asleep in death
People with heavenly hope => immediately taken to heaven

There are two resurrections.....the first one is for the anointed who will be in heaven, the second one is for the physical earthly people. The first one is before the 1,000 year reign. The second is during the 1,000 year reign
.
You have many problems with your review, but the main one is that "my Lord" sits at the footstool of God until "I make thine enemies thy footstool". Which is to say that "king David" will not rule on earth (Ezekiel 37:24) until "thine enemies" have become a "footstool" in which David will rule from Zion (Mount Zion), or per Zechariah 14, in the physical sense, Jerusalem, or more localized, the citadel of David, which is adjacent to the Temple Mount, located on earth, and will reign over the nations/Gentiles with a rod of iron, on earth (Revelation 19:15). As for the spiritual kingdom of heaven, which is shown by the acts of raising the dead, and healing the sick, the JWs are not able to do that, and are unable to heal themselves, and therefore their leaders, the fat sheep, are subject to "judgment" (Ezekiel 34:16). Yeshua's disciples healed the sick and raised the dead, and yet they died and were buried, and will not be raised to rule until "immediately after" the "day of the LORD", the "tribulation" and the coming of the son of man (Matthew 24:29-34)(Revelation 20:4). "Thine enemies" still rule as the 8th head of the beast with 10 horns (Revelation 17:11-14) until the time that "these will wage war against the Lamb", which parallels Daniel 2:45 and the setting up of the "kingdom", after the crushing of all the nations. I dare say, all dead JWs accordingly are still buried. Being as they kept the decree of the beast with two horns like a lamb, the Roman emperor Constantine, and therefore have a mark of the beast, it is doubtful that they will be raised from the dead at the beginning of the millennium (Revelation 20:4). But they say hope is eternal, so at least you have that. But don't try to go to buy a cup of coffee with that hope. The best you can hope for is to use Starbucks internet service by standing outside the doors. You will have to watch the patrons eat their pastries from outside.

Psalms 110: American Standard Version
Jehovah saith unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, Until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #2180

Post by JehovahsWitness »

WHY DID PAUL SAY THE ANOINTED WOULD NOT SLEEP IF SLEEP IS A METAPHOR FOR DEATH?


JOHN 11: 11-12

After he said these things, he added: “Lazarus our friend has fallen asleep., but I am traveling there to awaken him.” 12 The disciples then said to him: “Lord, if he is sleeping, he will get well. 13 Jesus, however, had spoken about his death.
A closer look at what Jesus said helps us to see what Paul alluded to.

Lazarus died following a period of sickness. A person's death is that instant /the split second when we pass from the state of being alive ===> [DEATH] ====> to the state of being dead.
Look back up to what Jesus actually said, while his'disciples alluded to Lazarus sleeping Jesus focused on his death. He said his friend had "fallen asleep".

All the time we are falling asleep,( maybe tossing and turning in our bed, trying to get into a comfortable position) ,we're not sleeping, we are awake. How long does the moment between being awake and being asleep last? It's a second, one instant you are awake the next, you are sleeping.

Image

The falling (asleep) is but a moment; the sleeping can last hours!

So applying the metaphor of sleep to death, all the time one is dying (hopefully not of a long painful disease) one is still alive. One's death (when one actually passes from life to death) is but a split second transition. Colloquially we might say "She had a good death" ( refering to "the end of life") but Jesus was obviously not using his metaphor to any part of Lazarus' life but rather to the cessation of his life . While the last bit of life is probably different for everyone, the death as in the instant when life stops, is theoretically the same for everyone.


HOW LONG DID YOU SLEEP?

Lazarus remained DEAD a total of 4 days. In other words, he spent four days "being dead" = sleeping. His "DEATH" (passing from being alive to being dead) wasn't four days long. He was four consecutive days "in a dead condition" ie. "sleeping". So . ...
Sleeping equals the period of time AFTER YOU DIE that you remain in that condition.




CONCLUSION: Paul was not saying the anointed will not die, he was saying they would not SLEEP, ie they would not spend more than a split nanosecond (the twinkling of an eye, ie. A blink) in that condition before being returned to life in spirit form.






JW






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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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