Why Jesus is God

[Wootah]

We all know that the non-Christian thinks they belong in heaven and God should accept them as they are.

Which is why we all see Jesus dying and rising on the cross as important in some way to our salvation.

But if Jesus is a man or angel then a created being can morally satisfy the law and so is morally equal to God.

Then

* It's just the basic idol worship of the self. It's just a repeat of the desire of Adam & Eve to become equal to God.

* If Jesus is not God then I am personally saying to God, 'that even though I am not righteous, you God, have to accept the righteousness of another man called Jesus on my behalf.'

* It's a demand for righteousness rather than graciously being given righteousness, just like our poor non-Christians.

But if Jesus is God then I am not claiming equality with God, I am demanding nothing. Instead, I am being undeservedly cloaked by God's righteousness.

Here is my challenge: How can you express your theology that you are saved by the work of a man or an angel that does not have within it the demand that God accept you into heaven?

In words, can you write down what you believe you are saying to God when you ask that you be saved by the righteousness of a man/angel/created being?

(I don't think you can and I think that when you see it, in your heart, you will know how you stand before God demanding he accept you and your sin.)

[Miles]

We all know that the non-Christian thinks they belong in heaven and God should accept them as they are.

Oooooooo! Not at all. I don't think any non-Chrisians wants to end up in heaven.

.........................

Which is why we see Jesus dying and rising on the cross as important in some way to our salvation.

Whaaaa? The reason you all see Jesus dying and rising on the cross as important in some way to your salvation is because you believe the non-Christian thinks they belong in heaven and God should accept them as they are?? Gotta say, this sounds a bit goofy.


.

[Wootah]

[Replying to Miles in post #2]

Where do you want to end up? Surely that is your 'heaven'?

[JehovahsWitness]

* If Jesus is not God then I am personally saying to God, 'that even though I am not righteous, you God, have to accept the righteousness of another man called Jesus on my behalf.'

Is there anything wrong or scripturally incompatible with making such a request?

ROMANS 5:18

So, then, as through one trespass the result to men of all sorts was condemnation, so too through one act of justification the result to men of all sorts+ is their being declared righteous for life

ROMANS 5
"That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin [...] in the same way that Adam transgressed, who bears a resemblance to the one who was to come [...] by one man's trespass many died, how much more did the undeserved kindness of God and his free gift by the undeserved kindness of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound to many!"

Adam equal to Jesus






JW





LEARN MORE: Why did Jesus suffer and die?
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2016164

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[We_Are_VENOM]

In words, can you write down what you believe you are saying to God when you ask that you be saved by the righteousness of a man/angel/created being?

Since Jesus is God (and he is), then you are being saved by more than a "righteous" man. You are being saved by God himself.

The atonement for sin was a 2-prong act of love.

So, you have one son...and lets say that when Ted Bundy was on trial, and right before he was to get his predicted death sentence; you burst through the door of the court room with your only son and say

"Your honor, and the people of the court; This man (Ted Bundy) is truly sorry for the crimes that he's committed. He repents, and he is no longer the evil, vile man that he once was. He now asks for forgiveness, and I ask that he be pardoned of all crimes against him.".

The judge replies..

"But sir, someone must pay for the atrocities that this man has committed. If he is not the one to pay, then who".

And you reply..

"Your honor, take my son. Please spare his (Ted Bundy) life for that of my son".

The judge, after shortly considering your sentiments..replies..

"Ok, send him (your son), to the electric chair"

So your so is put to death for the crimes of another.

Now, some may ask, "But how is that fair?? Sounds like a bad parent to me!!"

But wait...what if the judge asks the son..

"And what do you think about this, young man"?

And your son says..

"Your honor, I give my life with one regret; that I only have one life to give for this man..."

So, the love that God has for mankind is 2-prong..

1. The Father (God) loves us so much that he gave his only begotten son for us (John 3:16).
2. The Son (God) loves us so much that he gave up his life for us (John 15:13)

[Wootah]

* If Jesus is not God then I am personally saying to God, 'that even though I am not righteous, you God, have to accept the righteousness of another man called Jesus on my behalf.'

Is there anything wrong or scripturally incompatible with making such a request?

The first thing that comes to mind is that it denies grace: Salvation is no longer a gift from God but a demand from man.

Can God refuse your request to go to Heaven based on your understanding of Jesus?

[JehovahsWitness]

* If Jesus is not God then I am personally saying to God, 'that even though I am not righteous, you God, have to accept the righteousness of another man called Jesus on my behalf.'

Is there anything wrong or scripturally incompatible with making such a request?

The first thing that comes to mind is that it denies grace: Salvation is no longer a gift from God but a demand from man.

Can God refuse your request to go to Heaven based on your understanding of Jesus?

I've got nothing to do with any of that, YOU are the one that was personally saying the above and it seems to me, for whatever reason, you were not making a request but a demand ("have to")

I personally do not place demands on my Creator.




JW

[DavidLeon]

We all know that the non-Christian thinks they belong in heaven and God should accept them as they are.

We do? How on earth have we come to that conclusion? What is meant by non-Christian? Atheist? Jew? Hindu? Buddhist? etc. Having made such a peculiar statement I need definitions of non-Christian, heaven and God. Also, I need Biblical support, unless by non-Christian you mean one of the examples I gave above, because I certainly don't "know" that the "non-Christian" thinks they belong in "heaven" and "God" should accept them as they are. In fact I've never come across anyone making a statement remotely similar to that.

So what is a non-Christian, what is heaven, what is God and how do "we" allegedly know this?

Which is why we all see Jesus dying and rising on the cross as important in some way to our salvation.

May I suggest you be more careful with your wording and that you refrain from making the assumption that "we all" do anything. My reasoning for suggesting this is that it is not only impossible for "we all" to see anything universal and even more impossible for you to have established whether or not "we" had done so. Secondly Jesus didn't die or rise on the Roman phallic symbol the cross. He died on a Hebrew torture stake, but I suppose, even though you mentioned it, to dispute it would be, if not off topic, then at least a distraction, so let's leave that for another time, another thread?

But if Jesus is a man or angel then a created being can morally satisfy the law and so is morally equal to God.

Man wasn't made for the Law, the Law was made for man, so your supposition is erroneous because Jesus' ransom sacrifice bought back, or released from obligation the sin, not of God but of Adam.

Let's just start with that.

[tam]

Peace to you!

[Replying to Wootah in post #1]

* If Jesus is not God then I am personally saying to God, 'that even though I am not righteous, you God, have to accept the righteousness of another man called Jesus on my behalf.'

Well, that's not true, Wootah.

God is the One who sent His Son so that we may have life and have forgiveness of sins in Him (Christ). This was God's will. We're not telling God what He has to accept. He is the One who sent His Son (thereby providing the sacrifice; the ransom for our lives).


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Wootah]

Peace to you!

[Replying to Wootah in post #1]

* If Jesus is not God then I am personally saying to God, 'that even though I am not righteous, you God, have to accept the righteousness of another man called Jesus on my behalf.'

Well, that's not true, Wootah.

God is the One who sent His Son so that we may have life and have forgiveness of sins in Him (Christ). This was God's will. We're not telling God what He has to accept. He is the One who sent His Son (thereby providing the sacrifice; the ransom for our lives).


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Just write down the words, maybe it is like this: God you sent your son to die for my sins so you have to accept his sacrifice.

That's what you are intended on saying as I understand it on judgement day. But maybe you have a clearer statement?