"Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

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Miles
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"Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Post #1

Post by Miles »

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The disciple whom Jesus loved is referred to, specifically, six times in the book of John.


John 13:23-25
23 Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved.
24 Simon Peter therefore beckoned to him, that he should ask who it should be of whom he spake.
25 He then lying on Jesus' breast saith unto him, Lord, who is it?

__________________________

John 19:26-27
26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!

27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

__________________________

John 20:1-2

The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

2 Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.

__________________________

John 21: 7
7 Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher's coat unto him, (for he was
naked,) and did cast himself into the sea.

__________________________

John 21: 20-23
20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?
21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

__________________________

John 21: 24
24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.


As for which disciple Jesus was in love with, in the Wikipdia article: "Disciple whom Jesus loved"; the main candidate is none other than John himself

"Some scholars have additionally suggested a homoerotic interpretation of Christ's relationship with the Beloved Disciple, although such a scriptural reading is disputed . . . . Tilborg suggests that the portrait in the Gospel of John is "positively attuned to the development of possibly homosexual behaviour". . . .

The relationship between Christ and John was certainly interpreted by some as being of a physical erotic nature as early as the 16th century (albeit in a "heretical" context) - documented, for example, in the trial for blasphemy of Christopher Marlowe, who was accused of claiming that "St. John the Evangelist was bedfellow to Christ and leaned always in his bosom, that he used him as the sinners of Sodoma". In accusing Marlowe of the "sinful nature" of homosexual acts, James I of England inevitably invited comparisons to his own erotic relationship with the Duke of Buckingham which he also compared to that of the Beloved Disciple. Finally, Francesco Calcagno, a friar of Venicefaced trial and was executed in 1550 for claiming that "St. John was Christ's catamite".

Dynes also makes a link to the modern day where in 1970s New York a popular religious group was established called the "Church of the Beloved Disciple", with the intention of giving a positive reading of the relationship to support respect for same-sex love."


However, based on John 11:5: "Now Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus", and John 11:3 "Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick." some scholars feel Lazarus of Bethany is a better candidate,

Others, through a bit of tap dancing, have proposed that the beloved disciple was originally Mary Magdalene

Or, Jesus's beloved disciple may have been "a priestly member of a quasimonastic, mystical, and ascetic Jewish aristocracy, located on Jerusalem's prestigious southwest hill, who had hosted Jesus' last supper in that location"

Whatever the case, none of these scholars seem to have denied a homosexual connection with the Beloved Disciple. Even today there are those who believe Jesus was gay.




"Was Jesus gay? Probably"
.............by Paul Oestreicher

I preached on Good Friday that Jesus's intimacy with John suggested he was gay as I felt deeply it had to be addressed.

Jesus was a Hebrew rabbi. Unusually, he was unmarried. The idea that he had a romantic relationship with Mary Magdalene is the stuff of fiction, based on no biblical evidence. The evidence, on the other hand, that he may have been what we today call gay is very strong. But even gay rights campaigners in the church have been reluctant to suggest it. A significant exception was Hugh Montefiore, bishop of Birmingham and a convert from a prominent Jewish family. He dared to suggest that possibility and was met with disdain, as though he were simply out to shock.

After much reflection and with certainly no wish to shock, I felt I was left with no option but to suggest, for the first time in half a century of my Anglican priesthood, that Jesus may well have been homosexual. Had he been devoid of sexuality, he would not have been truly human. To believe that would be heretical.
source


SO, what do you, members of Debating Christianity and Religion, think? Jesus: likely gay or not?


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Re: "Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Post #11

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:37 pm
Miles wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:51 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 4:16 am Two questions for you

#1 Do you hold that the word "love" is synonymous with sexual attraction?
#2 Do you agree most fathers "love" their baby daughters?
A rather childish point you're trying to make, don't you think.


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And what point is that? Do you care to articulate "the point" you draw from my questions in a full sentence? It was you (not I) that drew attention to the English word "love" in a discussion about SEXUAL attraction, so my questions are, I think most relevant.

Of course if the answers make you feel uncomfortable or you would rather not respond I (and anyone else reading this thread) will understand.


Have a nice day whatever you decide,
Considering you're unable to figure out what you said, and I have no desire to coach you, yes I will have a nice day, thank you. And you have a nice day yourself. :approve:


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Re: "Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Post #12

Post by earl »

Miles,
We live in the 21st century.
Everything people say has some sexual connotation .

Without hearing the phrase spoken by John its a dead matter.
Like I would say,"that's what she said".( innuendo)
When heard by another person the meaning could possibly become a sexual connotation depending on what was said just before it and that person clicked to the idea they were being led away from casual conversation.
Manipulating scripture is common but the masses are not deceived.

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Re: "Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Post #13

Post by Miles »

earl wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 4:52 pm Miles,
We live in the 21st century.
Everything people say has some sexual connotation .
Such exaggeration doesn't get you off to a very propitious start here.

earl wrote: Without hearing the phrase spoken by John its a dead matter.
Why?
earl wrote: When heard by another person the meaning could possibly become a sexual connotation depending on what was said just before it and that person clicked to the idea they were being led away from casual conversation.
Possibly, I guess.
earl wrote: Manipulating scripture is common but the masses are not deceived.
If they haven't been deceived then why are the Christian masses sooo divided that in the USA alone they've been spurred to found more than 200 different denominations? Certainly almost all have been deceived into believing something none of the other denominations believe. If they haven't then why form so many denominations? Among the Baptists alone there are 27 species of believers.

Baptist
American Baptist Association
American Baptist Churches U.S.A.
Baptist Bible Fellowship, International
Baptist General Conference
Baptist Missionary Association of America
Bethel Ministerial Association
Central Baptist Association
Conservative Baptist Association of America
Duck River (& Kindred) Assns of Baptists (Baptist Church of Christ)
Free Will Baptist
General Association of Regular Baptist Churches
General Baptist
General Conference of the Evangelical Baptist Church, Inc.
Landmark Baptist
National Baptist Convention of America, Inc.
National Baptist Convention, U.S.A., Inc.
National Missionary Baptist Convention of America
National Primitive Baptist Convention of the U.S.A.
North American Baptist Conference
Primitive Baptist
Progressive National Baptist Convention, Inc.
Reformed Baptist
Separate Baptists in Christ (General Association of Separate Baptists)
Seventh Day Baptist General Conference
Southern Baptist Convention
United Baptist
United Free Will Baptist
source


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Re: "Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Post #14

Post by earl »

Miles ,
You take "the masses are not deceived" in specific relation to this specific topic and blow it out of context.
You are no longer discussing the interpretation of what John said.
My two posts have provided a reasonable remedy.
You have not
Forcing a alternate interpretation on this subject has never been successful

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Re: "Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Post #15

Post by earl »

Miles,
Are you suggesting Jesus and John were breaking the Levitical law?
Are you suggesting Jesus did not come to uphold the law?
Do you have something to support assumptions, the possibility,probability or potential secret sexual interaction between the two?
Other than John stated the same phrase 6 times .

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Re: "Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Post #16

Post by Miles »

earl wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:32 pm Miles,
Are you suggesting Jesus and John were breaking the Levitical law?
Are you suggesting Jesus did not come to uphold the law?
Which law in Leviticus are you talking about?

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Re: "Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Post #17

Post by Checkpoint »

Miles wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:48 am
Checkpoint wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:36 am Jesus loved John, yes, but he was not "in love with" him;
Your evidence please, because as it stands the six reinforcing references imply otherwise.
None is required. The implication you draw has no basis.
Checkpoint wrote: nor was it vlsa-versa.
Unless you have chapter and verse attesting to the fact, there's no reason to even consider your claim.
You are the one making the claim.

Checkpoint wrote:
But in any case, you are repeating a rumor, much as in the example quoted, of how Jesus said something to Peter, which was then misunderstood and misused, and had spread.
When an issue is seriously taken up by biblical scholars and investigators it ceases to be rumor and becomes an issue worthy of consideration (see my source: the Wikipedia article: "Disciple whom Jesus loved")
They have been there, done that, and rejected it as having "misunderstood and misused" the six verses to support their false claim.
Checkpoint wrote:
I suggest we be done with all such speculation,
Of course you would. Anything else you'd like to sweep under the carpet, like god condoning slavery perhaps?
Of course you respond in this way. It's par for the course.

Checkpoint wrote:
by taking seriously the corrective question Jesus asked, and the commandment he then added to it:

"What is that to you? You must follow me".
Which doesn't correct a thing regarding Jesus's great love for the disciple.
It corrects and commands me, and all who take him seriously.


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Re: "Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Post #18

Post by Miles »

Checkpoint wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:08 pm
Miles wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:48 am
Checkpoint wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:36 am Jesus loved John, yes, but he was not "in love with" him;
Your evidence please, because as it stands the six reinforcing references imply otherwise.
None is required. The implication you draw has no basis.
Yeah, I didn't think you had any. Image

Have a good day.


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Re: "Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Post #19

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 5:33 pm
...Among the Baptists alone there are 27 species of believers.

Baptist
American Baptist Association
American Baptist Churches U.S.A.
Baptist Bible Fellowship, International
Baptist General Conference
Baptist Missionary Association of America
Bethel Ministerial Association
Central Baptist Association
Conservative Baptist Association of America
Duck River (& Kindred) Assns of Baptists (Baptist Church of Christ)
Free Will Baptist
General Association of Regular Baptist Churches
General Baptist
General Conference of the Evangelical Baptist Church, Inc.
Landmark Baptist
National Baptist Convention of America, Inc.
National Baptist Convention, U.S.A., Inc.
National Missionary Baptist Convention of America
National Primitive Baptist Convention of the U.S.A.
North American Baptist Conference
Primitive Baptist
Progressive National Baptist Convention, Inc.
Reformed Baptist
Separate Baptists in Christ (General Association of Separate Baptists)
Seventh Day Baptist General Conference
Southern Baptist Convention
United Baptist
United Free Will Baptist


Reminds me of the famous joke ....
A man is standing on a bridge about to jump. A passer by stops and calls out, "Don't do it!"

"Why not ?", replies the desperate man, "Nobody loves me!"

"God loves you" calls back the compassionate passerby "Do you believe in God?"

"Yes." the man replies s hesitantly ...

"Are you a Christian or a Jew?" the kind man asks

"A Christian."

"Me, too!...Protestant or Catholic?"

"Protestant."

"Me, too! " he says "What franchise?"

"Baptist." comes the reply.

"Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?"

"Northern Baptist."

"Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"

"Northern Conservative Baptist." replies the jumper

"Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?"

"Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region."

"Me, too!" He says edging closer... "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?"

"Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912."

To which the passer by replied "Die, heretic!" And pushed him of the bridge.
To read more please go to other posts related to...

RELIGION, CHRISTIANITY and ...CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: "Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Post #20

Post by Checkpoint »

Miles wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:19 pm
Checkpoint wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:08 pm
Miles wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:48 am
Checkpoint wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:36 am Jesus loved John, yes, but he was not "in love with" him;
Your evidence please, because as it stands the six reinforcing references imply otherwise.
None is required. The implication you draw has no basis.
Yeah, I didn't think you had any.

Have a good day.
You are the one who didn't have any evidence.

I am doing just that, having a good day, and will continue to do so.

Bye for now.

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