Is death ... the end?

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Wootah
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Is death ... the end?

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Post by Wootah »

There seems to be some disagreement about what happens when we die.

Let's see what the Bible says:
https://www.biblehub.com/genesis/2-17.htm
but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”
Did Adam and Eve die? Yes or No. So does God not know what death is or are you disagreeing with God?
https://biblehub.com/ephesians/2-1.htm
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
Non Christians are regarded as dead but they all seem to be walking around (They had better get grafted in).

https://biblehub.com/john/11-26.htm
and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
John 11 deserves special mention. Jesus says to Martha and corrects her when she thinks Lazarus will rise on the last day. Not so Martha Jesus says, I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

Jesus says we shall never die and admonishes Mary for thinking Lazarus will only rise on the last day. So either Jesus is a liar or we shall never die.

You know just to continue a theme, where Jesus dies on the cross and the curtain is torn, that is in effect no more separation between man and God. Symbolically when we pass through the curtain of death, we will find that we are more alive than ever, with God forever.

I really think many are preaching death still has a hold on Christians, still has a sting to it.

It's a serious subject. I strongly think people are making Jesus out to be a liar who disagree, I say that to highlight the implications and encourage civility in such a charged topic :).

Is death ... the end?

What is death and what does it mean according to the Bible?
Last edited by Wootah on Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
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onewithhim
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Re: Is death ... the end

Post #101

Post by onewithhim »

William wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 1:08 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #92]
Yes, death is like sleep in that the person knows nothing.
I have said it before, but maybe not to you, Lady.

I am one who experiences something , rather than nothing, when my body sleeps.

I am not the only one who does so, and I have no doubts that Jesus too, was doing things while his body slept.
You are splitting hairs here, sir. The vast majority of people on this earth are not cognizant of what is going on around them when they are asleep. That is why Jesus spoke of death as like being asleep. If someone put their face in front of yours while you slept and made a funny face you would not be aware of that funny face. That is Jesus' point. Death is not like we go somewhere else and are conscious. Death is like a total cessation of awareness of what is going on in the awake world. We simply await the Resurrection.

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William
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Re: Is death ... the end

Post #102

Post by William »

onewithhim wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 12:19 pm
William wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 1:08 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #92]
Yes, death is like sleep in that the person knows nothing.
I have said it before, but maybe not to you, Lady.

I am one who experiences something , rather than nothing, when my body sleeps.

I am not the only one who does so, and I have no doubts that Jesus too, was doing things while his body slept.
You are splitting hairs here, sir. The vast majority of people on this earth are not cognizant of what is going on around them when they are asleep. That is why Jesus spoke of death as like being asleep. If someone put their face in front of yours while you slept and made a funny face you would not be aware of that funny face. That is Jesus' point. Death is not like we go somewhere else and are conscious. Death is like a total cessation of awareness of what is going on in the awake world. We simply await the Resurrection.
That is rubbish.

Jesus is not concerned only with "what is going on in the awake world" which you obviously mean to refer to Earth-side stuff.

Why do you think Dreams are mentioned so often re relationship with The Father? Are you really suggesting The Father is only interested in what goes on Earth-side?
Do you think The Father does not want his fellowship to extend into the Heavenly Realm?

What makes you think one has to be awake and aware Earth-side in order to have such relationship with The Father, and pronounce the things of sleep are to be considered delusion and devil and death?

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Re: Is death ... the end

Post #103

Post by onewithhim »

William wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 2:39 pm
onewithhim wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 12:19 pm
William wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 1:08 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #92]
Yes, death is like sleep in that the person knows nothing.
I have said it before, but maybe not to you, Lady.

I am one who experiences something , rather than nothing, when my body sleeps.

I am not the only one who does so, and I have no doubts that Jesus too, was doing things while his body slept.
You are splitting hairs here, sir. The vast majority of people on this earth are not cognizant of what is going on around them when they are asleep. That is why Jesus spoke of death as like being asleep. If someone put their face in front of yours while you slept and made a funny face you would not be aware of that funny face. That is Jesus' point. Death is not like we go somewhere else and are conscious. Death is like a total cessation of awareness of what is going on in the awake world. We simply await the Resurrection.
That is rubbish.

Jesus is not concerned only with "what is going on in the awake world" which you obviously mean to refer to Earth-side stuff.

Why do you think Dreams are mentioned so often re relationship with The Father? Are you really suggesting The Father is only interested in what goes on Earth-side?
Do you think The Father does not want his fellowship to extend into the Heavenly Realm?

What makes you think one has to be awake and aware Earth-side in order to have such relationship with The Father, and pronounce the things of sleep are to be considered delusion and devil and death?
The point is---death is likened to a deep sleep, from which you don't awaken until the Resurrection. I don't begin to understand why you can't get the point.

A deep sleep or any kind of sleep is not to be associated with the Devil or delusions. Jesus likened death to a deep sleep, and you're calling what he said "rubbish"??

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William
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Re: Is death ... the end

Post #104

Post by William »

onewithhim wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 8:23 am
William wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 2:39 pm
onewithhim wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 12:19 pm
William wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 1:08 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #92]
Yes, death is like sleep in that the person knows nothing.
I have said it before, but maybe not to you, Lady.

I am one who experiences something , rather than nothing, when my body sleeps.

I am not the only one who does so, and I have no doubts that Jesus too, was doing things while his body slept.
You are splitting hairs here, sir. The vast majority of people on this earth are not cognizant of what is going on around them when they are asleep. That is why Jesus spoke of death as like being asleep. If someone put their face in front of yours while you slept and made a funny face you would not be aware of that funny face. That is Jesus' point. Death is not like we go somewhere else and are conscious. Death is like a total cessation of awareness of what is going on in the awake world. We simply await the Resurrection.
That is rubbish.

Jesus is not concerned only with "what is going on in the awake world" which you obviously mean to refer to Earth-side stuff.

Why do you think Dreams are mentioned so often re relationship with The Father? Are you really suggesting The Father is only interested in what goes on Earth-side?
Do you think The Father does not want his fellowship to extend into the Heavenly Realm?

What makes you think one has to be awake and aware Earth-side in order to have such relationship with The Father, and pronounce the things of sleep are to be considered delusion and devil and death?
The point is---death is likened to a deep sleep, from which you don't awaken until the Resurrection. I don't begin to understand why you can't get the point.

A deep sleep or any kind of sleep is not to be associated with the Devil or delusions. Jesus likened death to a deep sleep, and you're calling what he said "rubbish"??
More Rubbish.

I am challenging your interpretation of sleep, for the reasons I gave. Address them rather than make a strawman accusation about me 'challenging' what biblical Jesus said about it.

"I am one who experiences something , rather than nothing, when my body sleeps.

I am not the only one who does so, and I have no doubts that Jesus too, was doing things while his body slept."


Do you have anything to argue against these claims?

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Re: Is death ... the end

Post #105

Post by tam »

[Replying to William in post #77]

Martha responds by saying that she knows her brother will rise again "in the resurrection at the last day"

[ - doing a quick search on this, I find no reference to OT beliefs regarding this, so for now will assume that this was an in-house belief that the extended family had, which was not something that the major branches of Judaism taught. I am certainly open to being directed to information which might show me differently...]
But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. 2And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:2

Your dead will live; their bodies will rise. Awake and sing, you who dwell in the dust! Isaiah 26:19

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Re: Is death ... the end

Post #106

Post by otseng »

William wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:04 am More Rubbish.
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Re: Is death ... the end

Post #107

Post by otseng »

myth-one.com wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 12:33 am [Replying to William in post #99]
I think your posting in tongues again.
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Re: Is death ... the end

Post #108

Post by William »

myth-one.com wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 12:33 am [Replying to William in post #99]

I think your posting in tongues again.
I am not here to edify myself. I write to edify for the purpose of strengthening, encouragement and comfort. Those with the ability to comprehend what I write, would naturally enough think differently about my posts than you do.

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William
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Re: Is death ... the end

Post #109

Post by William »

[Replying to onewithhim in post #103]
The point is---death is likened to a deep sleep, from which you don't awaken until the Resurrection. I don't begin to understand why you can't get the point.

A deep sleep or any kind of sleep is not to be associated with the Devil or delusions. Jesus likened death to a deep sleep, and you're calling what he said "rubbish"??
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
What I mean by 'rubbish' is what Christians mean by 'tares' - useless pieces of straw which end up on the fire.
Image

I am challenging your interpretation of sleep, for the reasons I gave. Address them rather than make a strawman accusation about me 'challenging' what biblical Jesus said about it.

[I am challenging you, not Jesus.]


The Reasons I gave:
"I am one who experiences something , rather than nothing, when my body sleeps.

I am not the only one who does so, and I have no doubts that Jesus too, was doing things while his body slept."

Do you have anything to argue against these reasons?

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Re: Is death ... the end

Post #110

Post by onewithhim »

William wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:37 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #103]
The point is---death is likened to a deep sleep, from which you don't awaken until the Resurrection. I don't begin to understand why you can't get the point.

A deep sleep or any kind of sleep is not to be associated with the Devil or delusions. Jesus likened death to a deep sleep, and you're calling what he said "rubbish"??
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
What I mean by 'rubbish' is what Christians mean by 'tares' - useless pieces of straw which end up on the fire.
Image

I am challenging your interpretation of sleep, for the reasons I gave. Address them rather than make a strawman accusation about me 'challenging' what biblical Jesus said about it.

[I am challenging you, not Jesus.]


The Reasons I gave:
"I am one who experiences something , rather than nothing, when my body sleeps.

I am not the only one who does so, and I have no doubts that Jesus too, was doing things while his body slept."

Do you have anything to argue against these reasons?
I have plenty to argue, and have already done so ad nauseum. You merely cboose to brush them aside as "rubbish."


.

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