"The Best Person To Rape Is Your Wife"

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Miles
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"The Best Person To Rape Is Your Wife"

Post #1

Post by Miles »

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"In a now-deleted sermon video, Dr. Burnett L, Robinson, the senior pastor at Grand Concourse Seventh-day Adventist Church in the Bronx (New York), told men that it was acceptable to rape their wives because women were commanded to submit to their husbands.

At least one person got a clip of that sermon before the church tries to remove it:


.......................................................................................

. . .Wives, you must submit yourselves to your husbands as unto the Lord. And in this matter of submission, I want you to know up front, ladies, that once you get married, you are no longer your own. You are your husband's. You understand what I'm saying about you?

And I emphasize that, because I saw, in court the other day on TV, where a lady sued her husband for rape. And I would say to you, gentlemen, the best person to rape is your wife.

But then, now it has become legalized---rape. I don't understand, "oh, you belong to somebody," and they are . . . all right . .


(I don't understand the last lines without more context.)
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This Christian rule isn't unique to this church, Seventh-day Adventists in general, or this pastor. It's the sort of thing white evangelicals have been preaching for a while now, as noted by Religion News Service:

The passage [from Ephesians] made news headlines back in in 1998 when the Southern Baptist Convention, the nation's largest Protestant denomination, amended its statement of faith to include a declaration that a woman should "submit herself graciously" to her husband's leadership"
source


Now this is no small Christian sect or cult, but an honest to god 21+ million member Christian religion the good Rev. Robinson represents.

So, considering the Southern Baptist Convention's regard of females, and apparently now the Seventh-day Adventists view of wives being quite rape-able, is this an upcoming trend in Christian morality? "Come here woman. You is about to get raped." Is it yours?


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Re: "The Best Person To Rape Is Your Wife"

Post #2

Post by 1213 »

Miles wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:28 am ...
So, considering the Southern Baptist Convention's regard of females, and apparently now the Seventh-day Adventists view of wives being quite rape-able, is this an upcoming trend in Christian morality? "Come here woman. You is about to get raped." Is it yours?
...
I hope the trend is that people don’t cherry pick scriptures they like and make doctrines around them. For example, in this case it would be good to notice that men also have requirements. If one takes right to “own” his wife from the Bible, it is ridiculous, if he doesn’t then also take these scriptures that would protect women from all kinds of evil.

Husbands, love your wives, and don’t be bitter against them.
Col. 3:19

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the assembly, and gave himself up for it;… Even so ought husbands also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself. For no man ever hated his own flesh; but nourishes and cherishes it, even as the Lord also does the assembly;
Efe. 5:25-29

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Re: "The Best Person To Rape Is Your Wife"

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Post by Miles »

1213 wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:58 am
Miles wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:28 am ...
So, considering the Southern Baptist Convention's regard of females, and apparently now the Seventh-day Adventists view of wives being quite rape-able, is this an upcoming trend in Christian morality? "Come here woman. You is about to get raped." Is it yours?
...
I hope the trend is that people don’t cherry pick scriptures they like and make doctrines around them. For example, in this case it would be good to notice that men also have requirements. If one takes right to “own” his wife from the Bible, it is ridiculous, if he doesn’t then also take these scriptures that would protect women from all kinds of evil.

Husbands, love your wives, and don’t be bitter against them.
Col. 3:19

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the assembly, and gave himself up for it;… Even so ought husbands also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself. For no man ever hated his own flesh; but nourishes and cherishes it, even as the Lord also does the assembly;
Efe. 5:25-29
But if selecting Ephesians 5:22-24 is cherry picking, as you imply, why wouldn't selecting Col. 3:19, and Ephesians 5:25-29 be cherry picking as well?


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Re: "The Best Person To Rape Is Your Wife"

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Post by 1213 »

Miles wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:50 pm ...why wouldn't selecting Col. 3:19, and Ephesians 5:25-29 be cherry picking as well?
Because I don't claim it is the whole truth. I brought it only to show that the issue is bigger than the scripture you had. It is misleading to take just a part of the whole issue.

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Re: "The Best Person To Rape Is Your Wife"

Post #5

Post by Miles »

1213 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:55 am
Miles wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:50 pm ...why wouldn't selecting Col. 3:19, and Ephesians 5:25-29 be cherry picking as well?
Because I don't claim it is the whole truth. I brought it only to show that the issue is bigger than the scripture you had. It is misleading to take just a part of the whole issue.
Not at all sure what is encompassed within the "whole truth," but aren't


Col. 3:19
Husbands, love your wives, and don’t be bitter against them.

and

Efe. 5:25-29
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the assembly, and gave himself up for it;… Even so ought husbands also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself. For no man ever hated his own flesh; but nourishes and cherishes it, even as the Lord also does the assembly;

true and binding? And if so, why isn't

Ephesians 5:22-24
22 Wives, be willing to serve your husbands the same as the Lord. 23 A husband is the head of his wife, just as Christ is the head of the church. Christ is the Savior of the church, which is his body. 24 The church serves under Christ, so it is the same with you wives. You should be willing to serve your husbands in everything.

just as true and binding?

AND, exactly what difference does it make if a true and binding verse or two don't constitute the totality of an issue? It doesn't make them wrong does it? Are they not still true and binding? Are not Col. 3:19 and Efe. 5:25-29 still true and binding? . . . . . . . . . . . . As well as Ephesians 5:22-24?


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Re: "The Best Person To Rape Is Your Wife"

Post #6

Post by JehovahsWitness »

DOES THE BIBLE GIVE MEN PERMISSION TO RAPE THEIR WIVES?


There is no scripture in the bible that avocates mistreating ones wife or gives a husband permission to physically or emotionally abuse her. The Mosaic law prohibited physical mistreatment of anyone including those in a man's household and Christian husband's are mandated by scripture treat their wives with love.

If a preacher has said that it was acceptable to rape their wives because women were commanded to submit to their husbands, they are biblically (and criminally ) mistaken.





JW


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Re: "The Best Person To Rape Is Your Wife"

Post #7

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:08 am There is no scripture in the bible that avocates mistreating ones wife or gives a husband permission to physically or emotionally abuse her.
I guess it pretty much comes down to what one considers mistreatment. For instance, the Bible says:

1 Timothy 2:11
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

Just as an FYI.

Subjection

1. The act of subduing; the act of vanquishing and bringing under the dominion of another.
2. The state of being under the power, control and government of another.
source: King James Bible Dictionary.

Now personally, I find subduing and vanquishing a wife so as to bring her under the dominion of her husband to be mistreatment. Whereas I gather you do not. That you feel subduing and vanquishing a wife so as to bring her under the dominion of her husband to be quite reasonable. Heck, time after time after time in verse after verse god tells women to keep quite and subject themselves to their husbands. Think this wouldn't soon amount to emotional abuse? I certainly think it would. How would you like it if your wife kept telling you the keep your mouth shut and keep scrubbing the floor?
The Mosaic law prohibited physical mistreatment of anyone including those in a man's household and Christian husband's are mandated by scripture treat their wives with love.
1 Timothy 2:12
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Think a man would stand for being treated with such loving demands? I don't. When it comes to the Bible, there's very little indicating that men and women should treat each other as equals.

If a preacher has said that it was acceptable to rape their wives because women were commanded to submit to their husbands, they are biblically (and criminally ) mistaken.
Need I remind you of Ephesians 5:22-24 where it says

22 Wives, be willing to serve your husbands the same as the Lord. 23 A husband is the head of his wife, just as Christ is the head of the church. Christ is the Savior of the church, which is his body. 24 The church serves under Christ, so it is the same with you wives. You should be willing to serve your husbands in everything.

Not "in somethings," but "in everything," which would include a roll in the hay even when a wife detests it.


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Re: "The Best Person To Rape Is Your Wife"

Post #8

Post by 1213 »

Miles wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:16 pm ...
just as true and binding?
...
I don't say that anything is binding. I think people are free to live as they want. But, if the other scripture is used for to have right to rape and mistreat women, I think it is important to notice the part that tells men should love and not mistreat women.

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Re: "The Best Person To Rape Is Your Wife"

Post #9

Post by Miles »

1213 wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:22 pm
Miles wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:16 pm ...
just as true and binding?
...
I don't say that anything is binding.
Hmmm. I always thought such dictates were binding. That if god (through scripture) said, "Do X" or "Don't do X" it was binding upon the Christian to do or not do X---that these are things Christians are expected to obey. No?
I think people are free to live as they want. But, if the other scripture is used for to have right to rape and mistreat women, I think it is important to notice the part that tells men should love and not mistreat women.
Yeah 'tis a puzzlement. Of course the Bible is replete with contradictory messages enabling the faithful to cherry-pick whatever message fits their personal theology. A nice feature of the religion I guess, but hardly commendable.


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Re: "The Best Person To Rape Is Your Wife"

Post #10

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:27 pm
1 Timothy 2:11
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.


What has the above got to do with a man having authority to RAPE (harm) his wife? It doesn't even address men. The question was "Does the bible give a man have the authority to rape his wife?" The answer is no and that scripture does not prove otherwise.



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Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
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http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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