"The Best Person To Rape Is Your Wife"

Exploring the details of Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Miles
Prodigy
Posts: 3352
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 256 times
Been thanked: 926 times

"The Best Person To Rape Is Your Wife"

Post #1

Post by Miles »

.


"In a now-deleted sermon video, Dr. Burnett L, Robinson, the senior pastor at Grand Concourse Seventh-day Adventist Church in the Bronx (New York), told men that it was acceptable to rape their wives because women were commanded to submit to their husbands.

At least one person got a clip of that sermon before the church tries to remove it:


.......................................................................................

. . .Wives, you must submit yourselves to your husbands as unto the Lord. And in this matter of submission, I want you to know up front, ladies, that once you get married, you are no longer your own. You are your husband's. You understand what I'm saying about you?

And I emphasize that, because I saw, in court the other day on TV, where a lady sued her husband for rape. And I would say to you, gentlemen, the best person to rape is your wife.

But then, now it has become legalized---rape. I don't understand, "oh, you belong to somebody," and they are . . . all right . .


(I don't understand the last lines without more context.)
.
.
.

This Christian rule isn't unique to this church, Seventh-day Adventists in general, or this pastor. It's the sort of thing white evangelicals have been preaching for a while now, as noted by Religion News Service:

The passage [from Ephesians] made news headlines back in in 1998 when the Southern Baptist Convention, the nation's largest Protestant denomination, amended its statement of faith to include a declaration that a woman should "submit herself graciously" to her husband's leadership"
source


Now this is no small Christian sect or cult, but an honest to god 21+ million member Christian religion the good Rev. Robinson represents.

So, considering the Southern Baptist Convention's regard of females, and apparently now the Seventh-day Adventists view of wives being quite rape-able, is this an upcoming trend in Christian morality? "Come here woman. You is about to get raped." Is it yours?


.

User avatar
1213
Savant
Posts: 9059
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:06 am
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 157 times
Contact:

Re: "The Best Person To Rape Is Your Wife"

Post #21

Post by 1213 »

Miles wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:43 pm Hmmm. I always thought such dictates were binding. That if god (through scripture) said, "Do X" or "Don't do X" it was binding upon the Christian to do or not do X---that these are things Christians are expected to obey. No?
It seems that all those depend on what person wants. Obviously, if ne wants to be evil and unrighteous, then it is not wise to expect to get what righteous gets. I have understood God’s commandments are good, I want to live according to them, because I think it is good and I love God.

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:3
Miles wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:43 pm...Of course the Bible is replete with contradictory messages ...
I disagree with that.

User avatar
Miles
Prodigy
Posts: 3352
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 256 times
Been thanked: 926 times

Re: "The Best Person To Rape Is Your Wife"

Post #22

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:40 am
Miles wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 2:55 am
...subject her to in EVERYTHING, just as the Bible says:
Husband are to "subject their wives TO-IN everything" that isn't even english!
Which is why I didn't write it as such.

Perhaps you could rephrase.
I used "in" to comport with its use in the Bible verses I presented.

"LEB
24 But as the church is subject to Christ, thus also wives should be subject to their husbands in everything."


.

User avatar
Miles
Prodigy
Posts: 3352
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 256 times
Been thanked: 926 times

Re: "The Best Person To Rape Is Your Wife"

Post #23

Post by Miles »

1213 wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:23 pm
Miles wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:43 pm Hmmm. I always thought such dictates were binding. That if god (through scripture) said, "Do X" or "Don't do X" it was binding upon the Christian to do or not do X---that these are things Christians are expected to obey. No?
It seems that all those depend on what person wants. Obviously, if ne wants to be evil and unrighteous, then it is not wise to expect to get what righteous gets. I have understood God’s commandments are good, I want to live according to them, because I think it is good and I love God.

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:3
The issue isn't what is wanted, but what is expected.


.

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 18071
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 431 times
Been thanked: 656 times
Contact:

Re: "The Best Person To Rape Is Your Wife"

Post #24

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 2:55 pm
The issue isn't what is wanted, but what is expected.

Well we have establish what is expected of wives. However you have not (and will never) produce a single sentence from scripture where husbands is the subject of the verb and wives are the object of the same verb. (A verb is an action word).

I think we both know you will never be able to produce such a sentence.



JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

User avatar
Miles
Prodigy
Posts: 3352
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 256 times
Been thanked: 926 times

Re: "The Best Person To Rape Is Your Wife"

Post #25

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:27 pm
Miles wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 2:55 pm
The issue isn't what is wanted, but what is expected.

Well we have establish what is expected of wives. However you have not (and will never) produce a single sentence from scripture where husbands is the subject of the verb and wives are the object of the same verb. (A verb is an action word).

I think we both know you will never be able to produce such a sentence.
Trying my darnedest to care about this "gotcha" issue of yours, but simply not having any luck. :( .....So . . . .

....... Have a good day. :mrgreen:


.

User avatar
Purple Knight
Guru
Posts: 2112
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:00 pm
Has thanked: 668 times
Been thanked: 407 times

Re: "The Best Person To Rape Is Your Wife"

Post #26

Post by Purple Knight »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:31 amThe subject of the verse is woman . It is telling the women to be "silent" (contextually in religious meetings), not telling (or giving permission to) husbands to rape or abuse their wives. It doesnt even mention or even allude to how husbands should or should not treat their wives. Your argument is like saying a rule for Canadian drivers tells us how Australians should treat Canadians.
This is quite true but if Canadians must follow a rule that requires them to never report an accident as an Australian's fault, it gives effective permission (but I admit, not true permission) to the Australians to go all-out demolition derby on the Canadian drivers and their little elf cars. Maybe the Australians go to Hell if they do it, but understandably what happens here on Earth, as a result of people following that rule, is of some concern too.

He shouldn't have said permission, because it isn't permission. He should have said effective permission which is worrying enough.

And this is just my experience, but when the wife gives up power in order to save the relationship, it tends to bring out the worst in a man.

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 18071
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 431 times
Been thanked: 656 times
Contact:

Re: "The Best Person To Rape Is Your Wife"

Post #27

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Purple Knight wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:52 pmme concern too.

He shouldn't have said permission, because it isn't permission.
I can only address what is said not what is wished was said.
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:49 pm
Can you not see there is a difference between "You can eat everything on the menu" and ..."We can serve you anything we like"?

Image

How often would you eat out if you didn't think there was a difference between the two ?

" All you [the customer] can eat!" is NOT permission for them [the restaurant owners] to cook and serve everything that exists including EXCREMENT or poison.

In the same way an instruction for wives to be submissive in "everything"* does not equate to permission for husbands to submit them to everything that exists including rape, abuse or murder!

Logic and Language,
*all Christian submission is in fact relative.



RELATED POSTS



How does the bible command husbands to treat their wives?
viewtopic.php?p=1057767#p1057767
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 18071
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 431 times
Been thanked: 656 times
Contact:

Re: "The Best Person To Rape Is Your Wife"

Post #28

Post by JehovahsWitness »

RAPE
Does the bible command or endorse RAPE?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 46#p976946

Does the bible give husbands the right to RAPE their wives?
viewtopic.php?p=1057293#p1057293

Is pedophilia prohibited in scripture?
viewtopic.php?p=956998#p956998

Why was a woman required to scream if she were threatened with rape Under the mosaic law?
viewtopic.php?p=764030#p764030

Is the bible command for women to be submissive to their husbands demeaning?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 65#p952465

Does the bible command wives be submissive in "everything" amount to permission to their husbands to do ANYTHING they want to them?
viewtopic.php?p=1057765#p1057765

How does the bible command husbands to treat their wives?
viewtopic.php?p=1057767#p1057767
To learn more please go to other posts related to...

SEX, WOMEN and .. RAPE
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:23 am, edited 4 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 18071
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 431 times
Been thanked: 656 times
Contact:

Re: "The Best Person To Rape Is Your Wife"

Post #29

Post by JehovahsWitness »

HOW DOES THE BIBLE COMMAND HUSBANDS TO TREAT THEIR WIVES?


Image
1 Peter 3:7 ESV
Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered.

Ephesians 5:25-33 ESV
Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, ... In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church ...

Ephesians 5:25 ESV
Husbands, love your wives , as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,

Colossians 3:19 ESV
Husbands, love your wives, and do not be harsh with them.

CONJUGAL RIGHTS - 1 CORINTHIANS 7:4

New International Version
The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife .

New Living Translation
The wife gives authority over her body to her husband, and the husband gives authority over his body to his wife .


Christian Standard Bible
A wife does not have the right over her own body, but her husband does. In the same way, a husband does not have the right over his own body, but his wife does .

Good News Translation
A wife is not the master of her own body, but her husband is; in the same way a husband is not the master of his own body , but his wife is.

International Standard Version
A wife does not have authority over her own body, but her husband does. In the same way, a husband doesn't have authority over his own body, but his wife does .






JEHOVAH'S WITNESS
To learn more please go to other posts related to...

WOMEN, SEX And... MARRIAGE
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

User avatar
Purple Knight
Guru
Posts: 2112
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:00 pm
Has thanked: 668 times
Been thanked: 407 times

Re: "The Best Person To Rape Is Your Wife"

Post #30

Post by Purple Knight »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 3:26 am
Purple Knight wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:52 pmme concern too.

He shouldn't have said permission, because it isn't permission.
I can only address what is said not what is wished was said.
Okay, well I'm saying it. Effective permission to beat your wife is worrying enough.

Even if God never says it's okay to beat your wife.

Even if God sends you to Hell if you beat your wife.

Even if God flat-out says, "Don't beat your wife."

It's still worrying enough because God also told the wife to submit to it if the husband does it.

I can understand why people might think that giving one party all the power results in smooth sailing. The military does it - the chain of command - and for the most part it works. It doesn't work in the household; that's been my experience anyway. The more submissive the wife is, the more the male's monkey brain tells him he is an alpha, and the more abusive he becomes. If the male wants to be abusive, even absolute total submission doesn't help. All it does is make the male cheat and trap his wife into doing something wrong so he can abuse her. "Go wash the car." "Okay honey." "WTF are you doing washing the car when you see I have no clean laundry?!" I've known more than one couple like this.

Post Reply