Not Needed By God

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William
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Not Needed By God

Post #1

Post by William »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:02 am
William wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:55 pm

The very idea that יהוה doesn't need assistance flies in the face of all the biblical stories told. Surely you are misrepresenting יהוה in that regard.
There are no biblical stories where God has "needed assistance" he needs noone to accomplish his purpose.

The fact that He has condescended to allow humans to play a part therein does not equates to his being unable to achieved what he wants without them. The bible repeatedly refers to Jehovah as the Almighty, so logically being all powerful an omnipotent God has no need of extra input to do what he wants. If Jehovah delegates its an expression of his love and mercy as the righteous view it as a privilege to be used by God.
QFB Is the idea that an almighty being can do everything without the assistance of anything, logically sound?



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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #71

Post by onewithhim »

nobspeople wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:33 am [Replying to William in post #48]
And it was one such belief - a claim that it was a FACT that BG condescended to allow humans to exist but the god being almighty could achieve what he wants without them, which appeared questionable.
I've found the only FACT about god is that the it's written about in the bible. Most (all?) everything else is belief and opinion based. Thus, logic isn't applicable, even though, as logical beings, humans try to make sense of it all.
It's not possible, but the trying is part of what makes humans humans IMO.
The claim was made in response to my writing in another thread that the very idea that BG doesn't need assistance flies in the face of all the biblical stories told.
You'll get that in a mystical being that can't be shown to be true and relies entirely on faith.
I believe that we CAN make sense of it all, if we avoid the many opinions of people that are not actually following what the Bible says. We can go back to the original languages that the Bible was written in and understand much better what the truth is, other than what the popular versions present

It's just someone's opinion that God Almighty needs anything. We don't have to keep going around in circles with such thinking. If we respect the Bible and take time to read it and deeply think about it, we can know that God needs nothing from humans. Really, how can we know about God without the Bible? It is the only book that gives us knowledge of who he is, what he expects of us, how the universe came about, how we can be saved from death, what the future holds for the earth and mankind, etc.

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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #72

Post by 2timothy316 »

William wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:12 am
I took the example of the biblical idea that BG requires worship from human beings.

Worship is not for His benefit. Jehovah doesn't need human worship to exist. If we want to keep existing then worship to Him is required on our part.

Worship means to serve. Jehovah needs no servants to survive, but we do need to serve Jehovah to live.

"I take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the curse; and you must choose life so that you may live, you and your descendants, by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice, and by sticking to him, for he is your life..."(Deuteronomy 30:19,20)

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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #73

Post by onewithhim »

2timothy316 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:37 am
William wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:12 am
I took the example of the biblical idea that BG requires worship from human beings.

Worship is not for His benefit. Jehovah doesn't need human worship to exist. If we want to keep existing then worship to Him is required on our part.

Worship means to serve. Jehovah needs no servants to survive, but we do need to serve Jehovah to live.

"I take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the curse; and you must choose life so that you may live, you and your descendants, by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice, and by sticking to him, for he is your life..."(Deuteronomy 30:19,20)
Yes, it is totally for our benefit that we worship God. He doesn't need us, but we need him if we want to be happy and live long.

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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #74

Post by nobspeople »

[Replying to onewithhim in post #71]
I believe that we CAN make sense of it all, if we avoid the many opinions of people that are not actually following what the Bible says.
For me, it depends on what 'of it all' is, here.
If 'of it all' pertains to god, then no, it's not possible for a flawed being to 'make sense of' a perfect being; it's beyond the capability of such flawed being.
We can go back to the original languages that the Bible was written in and understand much better what the truth is, other than what the popular versions present
Much better, sure. 'It all? I don't think it's possible as the bible isn't flawless and perfect, being written by flawed people who are biased (either consciously or not). Of course, with faith 'all things are possible', as they say. Except, it ain't. It's nice to say and believe, but many believe in things that aren't real. If that helps them, so be it.
It's just someone's opinion that God Almighty needs anything.
Everything 'about' or 'of' god is an opinion.
We don't have to keep going around in circles with such thinking.
Agreed. Yet, we do. Why? Because the bible isn't, totally and fully understandable. Some say the bible is real; without error; god's word; god inspired; myth; and on and on. Until knowledge is available (from god) circles are inevitable.
If we respect the Bible and take time to read it and deeply think about it, we can know that God needs nothing from humans.
I think we could say that without much of the bible, if god is what people say it is.
Really, how can we know about God without the Bible?
God is made up (or, at least, god isn't making itself known succinctly to everyone, as witnessed by all the different views of god) so we can't know about god fully with or without the bible. At best, the bible is a mediocre map to god.
It is the only book that gives us knowledge of who he is,
To me, knowledge is only knowledge if it can be tested and verified. That's not the case about god. God is known by opinions of others. Basically, god didn't write the bible - it was written by flawed men with bias. One can call that 'knowledge' but I suspect it would be the loosest meaning of the word.
what he expects of us, how the universe came about, how we can be saved from death, what the future holds for the earth and mankind, etc.
All opinions of others told to others and believed by others, IMO, coming from a former christian.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #75

Post by 2ndpillar2 »

William wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:21 am [Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #68]
Those who say they do not understand, kind of put themselves in the category of being among the "wicked".
Before you go jumping in that direction it might be a great idea to show that my not seeing logic in the claim that BG as an AME can do everything without anything, is a case of my simply not being able to understand how it can be achieved.

I see no logic in assigning those who do not understand a religious claim being told they are Sons of Satan by those of the religion having no apparent ability to explain their claims in a logical manner.
You might want to begin with explaining what you mean by BG (rapper Christopher Noel Dorsey) and AME (Aviation Medical Examiner)? As for "sons of the devil/Satan", those would be those who sin per 1 John 3:8. The sinners, would be those of the darkness, and according to John 1:9-10, the world did not recognize the light. One must turn from unrighteousness/sin, to righteousness, or die in their sins, living in the house of darkness. (Ezekiel 18:26) The logic of the sinner, is in the realm of the logic portrayed in George Orwell's 1984, or in the logic of the false prophet Paul, the Pharisee of Pharisee, and a foundational pillar of hypocrisy/leaven and doublemindedness.

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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #76

Post by onewithhim »

nobspeople wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:53 am [Replying to onewithhim in post #71]
I believe that we CAN make sense of it all, if we avoid the many opinions of people that are not actually following what the Bible says.
For me, it depends on what 'of it all' is, here.
If 'of it all' pertains to god, then no, it's not possible for a flawed being to 'make sense of' a perfect being; it's beyond the capability of such flawed being.
Why would God create people that could not make sense out of Him and what He is like? That is not reasonable. He created Adam perfect, with perfect faculties, and was "in God's image" having the attributes of love, power, wisdom and justice. Jehovah wanted very much to have a relationship with humans, as anyone can see who reads through the entire Bible. Adam rebelled and sin and death were introduced into the world, but we still have the capabilities to understand basic things about our Creator.

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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #77

Post by William »

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #72]
Jehovah doesn't need human worship to exist.
Strawman.

The QFD is not to do with what an AME would need to exist.

Clearly it states "Is the idea that an almighty being can do everything without the assistance of anything, logically sound?" not "Is the idea that an almighty being cannot exist without the assistance of anything, logically sound?"

The idea of simply existing is not a thing that is achieved. It is simply a position which is held.

IT does not even matter if an AME does not need worship, because in relation to the BG, it is something folk do.
Are you arguing therefore, that people worshiping the BG is something the BG does not want people doing?

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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #78

Post by William »

[Replying to onewithhim in post #76]
Jehovah wanted very much to have a relationship with humans, as anyone can see who reads through the entire Bible.
This is what I am arguing. The BG as an AME cannot have these things without these things. That being the case, it is misdirection to state that there are no biblical stories where Jehovah has needed assistance as he needs no one to accomplish his purpose.

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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #79

Post by William »

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #75]

BG=biblical god
AME = all mighty entity
...you would know this already if you read the posts being made. Why are you not reading all the posts?

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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #80

Post by 2timothy316 »

William wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:09 pm [Replying to 2timothy316 in post #72]
Jehovah doesn't need human worship to exist.
Strawman.
Nope. You said "I took the example of the biblical idea that BG requires worship from human beings." in post 69.
That statement is not is an error, it is not a Biblical idea and I was correcting it. It is not requirement for Him.

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