"Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

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Miles
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"Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #1

Post by Miles »

.


To Note: This OP has came about more as an eye-opener about Jehovah's Witnesses rather than any attempt at disparagement. Recognizing that every religion, denomination, and congregation has the right to operate as best it sees fit under its particular guidelines, my presentation and comments are strictly the result of surprise and befuddlement after watching the video, Shun Your Family.


I've heard of disfellowship among Jehovah's Witnesses before, but never realized the extent it goes to as a disloyalty test. So, what is disfellowship?

"Disfellowship:
To 'remove the wicked
man' or woman from
the congregation
Watchtower 2011 Jul 15 p.23 simplified edition"

"Jehovah's Witnesses are disfellowshipped for practices such as disagreeing with Watchtower doctrine, smoking or fornication, if judged by the congregation elders as unrepentant. A disfellowshipped person is to be shunned by all family and friends, usually for the remainder of their life, and go through tremendous emotional suffering. Whilst Scriptural precedence limits association with wrongdoers, Watchtower application of disfellowshipping seriously deviates from Bible guidelines.
source


A particularly disturbing comment in the video below:

"We have to put him [Jehovah] before a father, a mother, and even our children if they're disfellowshipped. And if the disfellowshipping of our family is not bad enough, loyalty to Jehovah may mean we even have to endure reproach. We may be hurting because, 'I can't, can't talk to my family member."
(time mark 2:41)


....................


What really amazes me is that the organization refuses to take any responsibility whatsoever for a member becoming "wicked." Yet it does refuse to, and even tells its members refuse to as well. From the video:

"Now we're gonna mention three things NOT to do, and two of them are games not to play.

The first one is, don't play the blame game. Resist self-blame. We may think that we're at fault somehow. Remember that Jehovah holds sinners responsible for their actions. Even young ones that are disfellowshipped . . it's because their relationship with Jehovah was weak.

Avoid the "if only games." "If only we would have preached more, if only I would have talked to them more." "If only we would have done more in the organization. If only. . .If only . . . Don't do that to ourselves
"


It's as if every mother, father, and JW preacher knew exactly how to get through to their children and other members, and actually did so. Think that's true? I don't. I've never heard a JW preacher speak, but I have heard a fair number of other Christian ministers, several of whom were so abysmal they couldn't convince a soaking wet dog to come in out of the rain. Thing is, from time to time we all fail in our relationships with others, and despite the JW philosophy, it isn't always the other guy's fault. Sometimes it's our own, in whole or in part. As willing to listen as a Jehovah's Witness may be it's only reasonable to acknowledge the possible failure of parents and preachers to get through. We don't all come with the same set of responsive abilities. Some of us simply have to be approached from another angle before the message sinks in. So for the sake of those Jehovah's Witnesses who are on the brink of becoming one of the "wicked," as well as their families, I think it would be nice if the organization changed their blame game and acknowledged the part it plays in the failures among its membership.


SO: Do you think I have a point here or not?

.

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #41

Post by Purple Knight »

onewithhim wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 8:57 pmI was disfellowshipped for 5 years some time ago. I always understood that I was responsible for my own actions, and I knew they had to disfellowship me for my fornication. That is one serious sin that is not tolerated, along with the things listed, for example, at I Corinthians 6:9,10. A person that is disfellowshipped learns from the "shunning," that he must be an upstanding person, and he knows that he can be reinstated whenever he stops doing the sin for which he was disfellowshipped.
onewithhim wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 8:57 pmWhoever resents being disfellowshipped is not taking responsibility for their unchristian actions.
Believe me I respect you, and I respect the religion that produces people who, a rarity in this world, can actually admit when they've done something wrong.

I also can't believe after listening to testimonials that every single time someone is kicked out, it is for just cause. I think religion in general has a problem, and that's too much faith... in your leadership. Just as you are a human being capable of being in the wrong, so too are your leaders.

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #42

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Purple Knight wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 9:22 pm
I also can't believe after listening to testimonials that every single time someone is kicked out, it is for just cause.
Nobody is suggesting mistakes are never made, but as this thread has illustrated, there are many misconceptions as to the Jehovah's Witness policy and practice. In my exprience these misconceptions and inaccuracies are at least in part, due to misinformation produced by apostates and disgruntled ex-members. Could it be that attending a convention of debarred lawyers has a disproportionate number of people that disagree with the debarring process?


JW



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Do Jehovahs Witnesses shun former members?
viewtopic.php?p=1065834#p1065834

Do JWs disfellowship for watching the wrong movies or or listening to the wrong music?
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viewtopic.php?p=1066088#p1066088
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sun Feb 06, 2022 1:13 am, edited 3 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #43

Post by tam »

Peace to you all.

A disassociated person is to be shunned in the same way as a disfellowshipped person is to be shunned. Children included. I've posted on the subject many times, so I'm just going to copy and paste from another thread:

tam wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 1:52 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 4:41 am
Tcg wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 4:23 am [
But there is a big price to pay when one recognizes they were mistaking about accepting the teachings of JWs or other Christian sects that practice shunning or excommunication or whatever it is that JWs call shunning.
If by that you are implying that Jehovahs Witnesses shun/ disfellowship members because they choose to leave our religion that is incorrect. Anyone that is a baptised member can simply stop coming to our church and after 6 months is no longer counted as a member.



FURTHER READING

Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Shun Those Who Used to Belong to Their Religion?
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/shunning/

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , SHUNNING and ... CHILD ABUSE

If someone leaves your religion (by resigning/disassociating or by joining another denomination), are you saying your religion does not tell its members to shun such a person?

The following article makes a distinction between a person who is inactive (not attending meetings or preaching) and a person who actually leaves the religion. The person who leaves the religion is to be shunned.

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/resign/

See also:
Relatives Not in the Household: “The situation is different if the disfellowshipped or disassociated one is a relative living outside the immediate family circle and home,” states The Watchtower of April 15, 1988, page 28. “It might be possible to have almost no contact at all with the relative. Even if there were some family matters requiring contact, this certainly would be kept to a minimum,” in harmony with the divine injunction to “quit mixing in company with anyone” who is guilty of sinning unrepentantly. (1 Cor. 5:11) Loyal Christians should strive to avoid needless association with such a relative, even keeping business dealings to an absolute minimum.​

and,
The term “disassociation” applies to the action taken by a person who is a baptized Witness but deliberately repudiates his Christian standing by stating that he no longer wants to be recognized as, or known as, one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Or he might renounce his place in the Christian congregation by his actions, such as by becoming part of a secular organization that has objectives contrary to Bible teachings and therefore is under judgment by Jehovah God.​—Isa. 2:4; Rev. 19:17-21.

31 Concerning those who renounced their Christian faith in his day, the apostle John wrote: “They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us.”​—1 John 2:19.

32 When a person disassociates himself, his situation before Jehovah is far different from that of an inactive Christian, one who no longer shares in the field ministry. A person may have become inactive because he failed to study God’s Word regularly. Or perhaps he experienced personal problems or persecution and lost his zeal for serving Jehovah. The elders as well as others in the congregation will continue to render appropriate spiritual assistance to an inactive Christian.​—Rom. 15:1; 1 Thess. 5:14; Heb. 12:12.

33 In contrast, if a person who is a Christian chooses to disassociate himself, a brief announcement is made to inform the congregation, stating: “[Name of person] is no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.” Such a person is treated in the same way as a disfellowshipped person.

You have to watch out for the way the WT magazines word things, and for the way that some respond to questions (or rather misdirect and respond instead to a different question). Lots and lots and lots of words in those magazine articles, so many that often you may not realize the question you asked was never answered. You were just misdirected. A person who is baptized who leaves the religion is shunned. I have found that there is rarely a direct and honest answer given to the public on that matter. Instead, the public is misdirected to something else... such as someone who is still a member but who is just 'weak in faith'.

The fact is that a person who LEAVES the religion is indeed shunned, treated in the exact same manner as a person who is disfellowshipped. There is no exception made for a person who realized they made a mistake in joining that religion, and wish to correct their mistake.

I find the 'bait and switch' tactic extremely deceptive. The magazines assist/promote that deception, but the reality is that a disassociate person is indeed shunned for leaving the religion.

A person could leave the religion because they have come to understand that it is not true, in the same way that a person could leave the RCC because they have come to understand that IT is not true. The WTS would still demand that person (who left their religion) be shunned. A person could leave these religions in order to follow Christ. The WTS will still demand that such a person be shunned.

(a jw who refuses to shun such people can find themselves in a judicial committee and even be disfellowshipped and shunned themselves)



Peace to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
viewtopic.php?p=1060672#p1060672

The literature speaks for itself.
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- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #44

Post by JehovahsWitness »

tam wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 10:36 pm Peace to you all.

A disassociated person is to be shunned in the same way as a disfellowshipped person is to be shunned.
If you had followed the thread you would know de are speaking about "disassociation" in terms of people who choose to no longer attend our meetings or who simply stops associating with us (see post #22)




JW
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sat Feb 05, 2022 11:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #45

Post by tam »

Peace again to you all,

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #44]

Well that might be a clever way for a religion to change the narrative and hope people don't look too closely at the man behind the curtain, but the fact remains that disassociation is a word that has more meaning than merely 'no longer preaching, no longer attending meetings'. JW's do shun former members (the very thing that we_are_venom mentioned in his post), people who are disassociated.

Literature speaks for itself.


Edited to add some links (including to a list of "JW disfellowshiping offenses"):

viewtopic.php?p=904394#p904394

viewtopic.php?p=1003919#p1003919

viewtopic.php?p=835422#p835422

The difference between the instructions Christ gave on how to treat one who sins against you, and the JW practice of judging and shunning (erroneously) claiming to be based upon His words:

viewtopic.php?p=785298#p785298



May anyone who wishes be able to get a sense of these matters from the One who is the Truth, and may anyone who thirsts and anyone who wishes, "Come! Take the free gift of the water of Life."

Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
Last edited by tam on Sat Feb 05, 2022 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #46

Post by JehovahsWitness »

tam wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 10:54 pm ...the fact remains that disassociation is a word that has more meaning than merely 'no longer preaching, no longer attending meetings'.


Well, that is what we were talking about: Someone that no longer wants to associate with the church for whatever reason and simply ceases to do so (see post #22) . I trust we_are_venom can speak for himself
We_Are_VENOM wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 8:30 pm...leaves their organization, which (oftentimes) has absolutely nothing to do with a habitual sin.... a person who lives a Christ-like life, but decide that the Jehovah's Witness organization isn't something he/she wants to be part of and leave... for that reason alone....




I understood the question then to be ...

Do Jehovah's Witnesses shun people BECAUSE they are former members ie . Is leaving the church viewed as a reason to disfellowship someone? The answer to that question is NO.

Obviously if someone formally submits a request to be treated as a disfellowshipped person, we do not deny them that right.



JW



To learn more please go to other posts related to...

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , DISFELLOWSHIPPING/SHUNNING and ... ORGANISATIONAL INFALLIBILITY
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sun Feb 27, 2022 5:46 am, edited 5 times in total.
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http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #47

Post by tam »

Peace again,
[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #46]

Obviously if someone formally submits a request to be traeted as a disfellowshipped person, we do not deny them that right.
In other words, a disassociated person is indeed treated the same way as a disfellowshipped person. You have clearly connected the two things as earning the same treatment.
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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #48

Post by JehovahsWitness »

tam wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 11:12 pm
In other words, a disassociated person is indeed treated the same way as a disfellowshipped person. You have clearly connected the two things as earning the same treatment.
In other words someone that asks to be disfellowshipped in writing is granted their request. Are you suggesting respecting someones wishes in this regard is some kind of injustice?





JW
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sat Feb 05, 2022 11:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #49

Post by tam »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 11:15 pm
tam wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 11:12 pm Peace again,
[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #46]

Obviously if someone formally submits a request to be traeted as a disfellowshipped person, we do not deny them that right.
In other words, a disassociated person is indeed treated the same way as a disfellowshipped person. You have clearly connected the two things as earning the same treatment.
In other words someone that asks to be disfellowshipped in writing is granted their request. Are you suggesting respecting someones wishes is some kind of injustice?





JW
LOL... are you suggesting people write in and say, please treat me as a disfellowshipped person; I want to be shunned?
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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #50

Post by JehovahsWitness »

tam wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 11:17 pm ... are you suggesting people write in and say, please treat me as a disfellowshipped person; I want to be shunned?
I don't know how they word their correspondance (that is presumably individual to each person) but yes, people do of course make such requests. Apostates and disgruntled ex-witnesses even go so far as to post their request online and /or provide templates for others.
Regardless of how they word it, all Jehovahs Witnesses fully understand the repurcusssions of such a formal written request (which is why, while it is not unheard of, it is very rare).
Nobody is obliged to do the above before leaving* but if they do, is it an injustice their wishes are respected?




JEHOVAH'S WITNESS


* After 6 months of inactivity Witnesses are no longer counted as a member.


To learn more please go to other posts related to...

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , DISFELLOWSHIPPING / SHUNNING and ... ORGANISATIONAL INFALLIBILITY
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sun Feb 27, 2022 5:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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