What is meant by "spiritually dead"?

[bernee51]

In another thread this comment was made of a poster:

A spiritually dead person cannot understand the bible, you should not even read the bible.

I have been called 'spiritually dead" but have yet to reach an understanding of what it means. Must I be 'spiritually alive to understand what is meant by "spiritually dead"?

What does 'spiritually dead' mean?

And secondly - why admonish a so called spiritually dead person for reading the bible. would it not be to their advantage for a 'spiritually dead' person to read the bible in order to become 'spiritually alive"?

[Goat]

In another thread this comment was made of a poster:

A spiritually dead person cannot understand the bible, you should not even read the bible.

I have been called 'spiritually dead" but have yet to reach an understanding of what it means. Must I be 'spiritually alive to understand what is meant by "spiritually dead"?

What does 'spiritually dead' mean?

And secondly - why admonish a so called spiritually dead person for reading the bible. would it not be to their advantage for a 'spiritually dead' person to read the bible in order to become 'spiritually alive"?

Spiritually dead means you disagree with someone's interpretation, and they are claiming special knowledge. Calling someone else spiritually dead because you don't agree with their interpretation is the last refuge of the incompetent.

[McCulloch]

If it does not seem too obvious spiritually dead should mean something like not spiritually alive. I think that we all have a kind of working definition of alive and dead. So, if we can agree on what spiritual means, if it means anything at all, we'd be done.

[Cathar1950]

If it does not seem too obvious spiritually dead should mean something like not spiritually alive. I think that we all have a kind of working definition of alive and dead. So, if we can agree on what spiritual means, if it means anything at all, we'd be done.

I happen to agree with you Mac but I am not sure we(you and I verse those that claim someone is spiritualy dead) are meaning the same thing when we speak of dead or alive. If you recall Cohn talks about "logicide" where things have special meanings and even meanings are often backwards from the normal use of the words. I guess I could look it up again.
I am just wondering if we can even agree on what dead and alive means.
But it is a start.

[Furrowed Brow]

Dead silence = absolute silence
Dead spiritually = absolutely spiritual.

[linkbolt]

With regards to Christian doctrine, when one states that another is spiritually dead, the person is merely proclaiming the idea, that the individual in question cannot grasp the concept in a spiritual way. It most certainly does not imply that the intellect is unable to grasp concepts explored, rather that the human mind is tainted by the Christian concept of original sin. This sin accounts for the spiritually dead and thus is what is meant.

I do not agree however that one should not bother reading the bible.

Agreeing what spiritual means would be cause for discussion which would probably lead to debate. Everyone has there own interpretation.

Spiritually Dead = Unregenerate or unrepentant sinner

Spiritually Alive = regenerated or repentant sinner

* Still sinner however having repented and accepting Christ.

linkbolt

[OnceConvinced]

In another thread this comment was made of a poster:

A spiritually dead person cannot understand the bible, you should not even read the bible.

I have been called 'spiritually dead" but have yet to reach an understanding of what it means. Must I be 'spiritually alive to understand what is meant by "spiritually dead"?

What does 'spiritually dead' mean?

And secondly - why admonish a so called spiritually dead person for reading the bible. would it not be to their advantage for a 'spiritually dead' person to read the bible in order to become 'spiritually alive"?

Wow, this person is very judgemental. This person seems to think they are an expert on you. I guess the "Holy Spirit" gave them that information, huh? (I'm assuming this person was insinuating you were "spiritually dead")

I can't believe this person would say you should not read the bible. Most Christians would insist that you do. And to study it and "see the truths for yourself".

The real problem is, it's not about reading the bible as "spiritually alive". It's about reading it from the point of view that it is God's word. That God is good, loving, just, perfect and all-knowing. If you look at it that way, then you will "understand". No holy spirit is needed to gain that understanding.

What does "spiritually dead" mean? That's actually a good question. The quoter above seems to suggest it's if you do not have the "holy spirit" in you. But to say someone is "spiritually dead" would assume that person must have once been "spiritually alive".

As a christian, I attended the odd church and deemed it to be "spiritually dead" because it seemed very dull and lifeless. But still it's hard to define that term, what it means and how you become that.

Spiritually dead means you disagree with someone's interpretation, and they are claiming special knowledge. Calling someone else spiritually dead because you don't agree with their interpretation is the last refuge of the incompetent.

Yes! This is generally the case.

[linkbolt]

The quoter above seems to suggest it's if you do not have the "holy spirit" in you. But to say someone is "spiritually dead" would assume that person must have once been "spiritually alive".

Actually that is what the scriptures teach, friend.

Romans 3:9-10 and 18. "I have already charged that all men, both Jews and Greeks, are under the power of sin, as it is written: None is righteous, no not one; no one seeks for God....There is no fear of God before their eyes."



Romans 8:7-8 says, "For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, indeed it cannot; and those who are in the flesh cannot please God."



The natural man “does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned” (1 Cor. 2:14).

Again, I'm not against people reading the bible, I'm all for it however the point that I'm trying to make is that....unless one is regenerated then one cannot understand the spiritual things of God as per the forementioned scriptures.

Some more scripture proof texts.

He is dead in sins
Gen 2:16-17; John 3:5-7; Eph 2:1-3; Col 2:13

He is blinded and corrupt in his heart
Gen 6:5; Gen 8:21; Ecc 9:3; Jer 17:9; Mark 7:21-23; John 3:19-21; Rom 8:7-8; Eph 4:17-19; Eph 5:8

He is captive to sin and Satan
John 8:34; John 8:44; Rom 6:20; 2Tim 2:25-26; Tit 3:3; 1John 5:19

He performs actions freely according to his nature, but his nature is wholly evil
Job 14:4; Mat 7:16-18; Mat 12:33; Mark 7:21-23; Jam 1:13-14

Some good resources.

http://www.monergism.com/directory/link ... ure-Texts/

http://www.reformationtheology.com/2007 ... orized.php

http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/a ... avity.html

linkbolt

[Fallibleone]

The quoter above seems to suggest it's if you do not have the "holy spirit" in you. But to say someone is "spiritually dead" would assume that person must have once been "spiritually alive".

Actually that is what the scriptures teach, friend.

Romans 3:9-10 and 18. "I have already charged that all men, both Jews and Greeks, are under the power of sin, as it is written: None is righteous, no not one; no one seeks for God....There is no fear of God before their eyes."



Romans 8:7-8 says, "For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, indeed it cannot; and those who are in the flesh cannot please God."

I do not see here any teaching that one is 'spiritually alive' or 'spiritually dead', only about those whose minds are 'set on the flesh'. Interpretation is required to get to 'spiritually dead'.

The natural man “does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned” (1 Cor. 2:14).

Again, I'm not against people reading the bible, I'm all for it however the point that I'm trying to make is that....unless one is regenerated then one cannot understand the spiritual things of God as per the forementioned scriptures.

The point I would like to make is that this is what happens when one judges others based on the teachings in a book.

One discerns that the book is the 'Truth', that there is 'Spirit', that it is possible for one to be 'spiritually alive', that those who understand the 'Truth' are 'spiritually alive', that is is possible to be 'spiritually dead', that those who do not understand the 'Truth' are spiritually dead, and that those who do not agree that it is the 'Truth' simply do not understand that it is the 'Truth'. All based on an argument from authority. To me this is an exercise in elitism and nothing more.

Some more scripture proof texts.

'Scripture proof' - oxymoron?

[bernee51]

The quoter above seems to suggest it's if you do not have the "holy spirit" in you. But to say someone is "spiritually dead" would assume that person must have once been "spiritually alive".

Actually that is what the scriptures teach, friend.

Romans 3:9-10 and 18. "I have already charged that all men, both Jews and Greeks, are under the power of sin, as it is written: None is righteous, no not one; no one seeks for God....There is no fear of God before their eyes."



Romans 8:7-8 says, "For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, indeed it cannot; and those who are in the flesh cannot please God."

And how does anything that you have quoted from the hysteric Paul relate to 'spiritually dead'.

Can YOU define what is meant by spiritual - without quoting the bible?

The natural man “does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned” (1 Cor. 2:14).

Paul uses a circular argument (surprise surprise) - unless you are 'able to spiritually discern' you cannot understand the 'things that come from the spirit of god' because they are spiritually discerned.

[
Again, I'm not against people reading the bible, I'm all for it however the point that I'm trying to make is that....unless one is regenerated then one cannot understand the spiritual things of God as per the forementioned scriptures.

IOW - unless you first believe it is you cannot believe. Can't you in any way see how this is a nonsense argument?

Some more scripture proof texts.

He is dead in sins
Gen 2:16-17; John 3:5-7; Eph 2:1-3; Col 2:13

He is blinded and corrupt in his heart
Gen 6:5; Gen 8:21; Ecc 9:3; Jer 17:9; Mark 7:21-23; John 3:19-21; Rom 8:7-8; Eph 4:17-19; Eph 5:8

He is captive to sin and Satan
John 8:34; John 8:44; Rom 6:20; 2Tim 2:25-26; Tit 3:3; 1John 5:19

He performs actions freely according to his nature, but his nature is wholly evil
Job 14:4; Mat 7:16-18; Mat 12:33; Mark 7:21-23; Jam 1:13-14

And I can quote any number of verses from the Vedas or the Bhagavad Gita or the Dhamma Pada that show 'prove' that man is suffering under an illusion - the greatest and most damaging of which is that mankind is 'sinful'.