If You Don't Believe Quran is the Word of God

To discuss Islam topics and issues

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Mirac
Student
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:00 am

If You Don't Believe Quran is the Word of God

Post #1

Post by Mirac »

Today science reveals many miracles that no one knew 14 centuries ago. Implications stated in Quran when people thought the earth had the shape of a tray prove that it was written by god. There are many evidence enough to write a book but I am giving you a few.

1. The Two Seas That Don't Merge

A French oceanographer, J. Cousteau noticed that the Mediterranean Sea and the Atlantic Ocean did not merge in the strait of Gibraltar. An incredible barrier prevented the two seas from coming together as stated in Quran.
"He has let free the two seas meeting together. Between them there is a barrier which they do not transgress."

(55-Gracious, 19-20)
This is because of a physical characteristic called “surface tension.� Thus, neighboring seas present different densities, salinity rates and compositions. Water, that usually mixes easily, can turn into a wall and it is not affected by strong waves and currents.
"He is the One who has set free the two seas; one is sweet and palatable, and the other is salty and bitter. And He made a barrier between them, a partition that is forbidden to be passed."
(25-The Distinquisher, 53)
2. Orbits of Astronomical Objects

In 17th century Galileo Galilei discovered that planets orbited sun.
"It is He who created the night and the day, and the sun, and the moon; each of them floating in an orbit."

(21-The Prophets, 33)

"By the Sky with its ingeniously devised paths (orbits)."
(51-The Dispersing, 7)
3. Landing on the Moon and its Date
"And the Moon when it is full. You will surely ride from stage to stage. So, why do they not believe?"
(84-The Splitting, 18-20)

"The Hour has come closer and the moon has split."
(54-The Moon, 1)
The number of verses to be counted from this verse to the end of the Quran is 1389. The year 1389 in the Muslim calendar corresponds to the year 1969 in the Gregorian calendar, and the year 1969 was the year when man set foot on the moon for the first time.

4. The Land-Sea Ratio

Word --- Number of occurrence in Quran ---- The Ratio
Sea --------------------- 32 --------------------- 32/45=71.111
Land -------------------- 13 --------------------- 13/45=28.888

The ratio of seas to earth: %71
The ratio of lands to earth: %29

5. Geoidal Form of Earth

Quran explains that the shape of earth is not like a tray or a sphere but geoidal by resembling it to an ostrich's egg. The word “dahw� in the verse below means rotundity like that of the ostrich’s egg.
"He made the earth egg-shaped."

(79-The Snatchers, 30)
6. Only Female Bees Work

In recent decades, it was understood that only female bees build hives, collect nectar and make honey.
"And your Lord revealed the female honeybee; build homes in mountains, and trees, and in the hives people built for you. Then, eat of all fruits, and follow the ways of your Lord made easy (for you). There comes forth from their bellies, a drink of varying colour wherein is healing for men. Verily, in this is indeed a sign for people who think."

(16-The Honeybee, 68-69)
7. Pulsars

Pulsars are highly magnetized, rotating neutron stars that emit a beam of electromagnetic radiation. The radiation can only be observed when the beam of emission is pointing towards the Earth. This is called the lighthouse effect and gives rise to the pulsed nature that gives pulsars their name. The first pulsar was observed on November 28, 1967 (from wikipedia)
"By the heavens and The Knocker. How will you comprehend what the The Knocker is? It’s a piercing star."
(86-The Knocker, 1-3)
8. Unique Fingertips

In 1856, Genn Ginsen found out that the pattern of lines at the tip of a person’s finger was something unique to the individual. Until 1856, men knew nothing about this characteristic of fingertips.
"Does the human being think that We cannot assemble his bones? Surely, We are able to reconstruct even his fingertips."

(75-The Resurrection, 3-4)
9. Big Bang, Gaseous Stage and Expansion of Universe

The Big Bang was the event which led to the formation of the universe, according to the prevailing cosmological theory of the universe's early development (known as the Big Bang theory or Big Bang model). According to the Big Bang model, the universe, originally in an extremely hot and dense state that expanded rapidly, has since cooled by expanding to the present diluted state, and continues to expand today. Over a long period of time, the slightly denser regions of the nearly uniformly distributed matter gravitationally attracted nearby matter and thus grew even denser, forming gas clouds, stars, galaxies, and the other astronomical structures observable today. (from wikipedia)
"Do not these disbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were an integrated mass, which We then split, and from water We made all living things? Will they not believe even then?"

(21-The Prophets, 30)

"Then He turned to the heavens, and it was in a gaseous state. And said to it, and the earth; “Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly.� They said, “We come willingly.� "

(41-Elucidated, 11)

"With power did We construct firmament. Verily, We are expanding it."

(51-The Dispersing, 47)
10. The Atom and its Particles
"Not even an atom’s weight in the heavens and the earth, or something smaller or greater than it is hidden from Him, but all are in a clear record."

(34-Sheba, 3)

User avatar
Mirac
Student
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:00 am

Post #31

Post by Mirac »

I thank Wootah for taking my attention on this. I have found out what the verse 25:53 is actually about. A research discovered that in estuaries a partition appears between fresh and salt water. (Oceanography, Gross, p. 244, and Introductory Oceanography, Thurman, pp. 300-301)
Image
Therefore relating this verse with Cousteau’s findings was wrong since it is related with the miracle mentioned above. However, the verses 55:19-20 are fine to stay related with his research. I wish there was a way to edit my post and add this new one.

User avatar
Wootah
Savant
Posts: 9264
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:16 am
Has thanked: 194 times
Been thanked: 108 times

Post #32

Post by Wootah »

Mirac wrote:I thank Wootah for taking my attention on this.
There is a lot more thanking for you to do. This is only the first scientific miracle of the koran we are going to debunk together. Remember that debunking these miracles don't disprove the Koran. What it does show is how desperate individuals try to make sense of the Koran. That's the key message you should draw from this discussion as you participate in it.
I have found out what the verse 25:53 is actually about. A research discovered that in estuaries a partition appears between fresh and salt water. (Oceanography, Gross, p. 244, and Introductory Oceanography, Thurman, pp. 300-301)
Estuaries don't help you.
Therefore relating this verse with Cousteau’s findings was wrong since it is related with the miracle mentioned above. However, the verses 55:19-20 are fine to stay related with his research. I wish there was a way to edit my post and add this new one.
There is no way you can explain how one of two seas can be sweet and palatable. It is false and in a book that says if one thing is false then the whole thing is false this should affect your belief in the Koran.

This link debunks the estuary explanation.


In essence your koran verse fails because:
- there is no impentrable barrier
- there is no sea with sweet palatable water

User avatar
Mirac
Student
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:00 am

Post #33

Post by Mirac »

Hence the author of the verse didn't also have the minimum common sense that a layman has.
This is an insult to Allah.

I gave you a scientific research which claims that a partition appears between fresh and salt water, and you are giving me an unscientific biased article? Everyone can post anything to scribd.

Human mind is highly skilled in rationalizing everything. If someone does not want to believe something then makes up his own belief system. For this reason,debunking the Bible is very popular among atheists.

Why is it impossible for Allah to send another book after the Bible? Did Jesus say "there will be no more messengers after me"? Didn't he say "your savior will come"? Jews don't believe in Jesus because they think he is a false prophet and will burn in hell forever. And Christians think the same for Mohammed. But for Muslims, it's very natural for him to send lots of prophets to preach humans, for they are likely to forget them and obey Satan. That's why we believe in all prophets.

Why does it surprise you when Allah shows you his signs for your greater good? Scientific research agree with the Qur'an. Is your pride that strong to ignore science yet more important ignore him? If you die before accepting his signs, how will you explain it to him? You should think of these when you have time because remorse won't save you.

You should read Maurice Bucaille's The Bible, The Qur'an and Science. He claims no contradicting scientific fact in the Qur'an.

User avatar
Wootah
Savant
Posts: 9264
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:16 am
Has thanked: 194 times
Been thanked: 108 times

Post #34

Post by Wootah »

Mirac wrote:
Hence the author of the verse didn't also have the minimum common sense that a layman has.
This is an insult to Allah.
No this is you feigning outrage so that you can switch off. You can switch off any time. At DC&R you are invited to switch on.

User avatar
Mirac
Student
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:00 am

Post #35

Post by Mirac »

Wootah wrote:No this is you feigning outrage so that you can switch off. You can switch off any time. At DC&R you are invited to switch on.
You are losing your civility again. Remember I've never been disrespectful to you. If you have something meaningful to say then go ahead, otherwise I'll report you to admins.

User avatar
Wootah
Savant
Posts: 9264
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:16 am
Has thanked: 194 times
Been thanked: 108 times

Post #36

Post by Wootah »

Mirac wrote:
Wootah wrote:No this is you feigning outrage so that you can switch off. You can switch off any time. At DC&R you are invited to switch on.
You are losing your civility again. Remember I've never been disrespectful to you. If you have something meaningful to say then go ahead, otherwise I'll report you to admins.
You said This is insulting Allah. I don't even know what you mean by that. It makes me question did I say something wrong? Did something happen? But I don't think I have done anything wrong or uncivil. So I can only conclude you are playing some game whereby facts are called insults. I really do not know what else you meant by that statement and I fear you are trying to silence the discussion. It is the only conclusion have right now.

There is no way you can explain how one of two seas can be sweet and palatable. It is false and in a book that says if one thing is false then the whole thing is false this should affect your belief in the Koran.

Are you really willing to claim now that your miracle is that a river has fresh water and a sea salty water. If that is now your current claim then you are faced with the fact coral does not grow in rivers that are fresh water.

User avatar
Mirac
Student
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:00 am

Post #37

Post by Mirac »

The quotation was from the document on scribd. It was my reaction to that document's author, not to you.
Game? I am not a man of wasting his time playing games here. As you might realize I rarely find time to reply. I write only what I know best.
Facts are called insults? The quotation was nothing but an insult. The author may use whatever rationale to prove his claim, but can't humiliate Allah.
There is no way you can explain how one of two seas can be sweet and palatable. It is false and in a book that says if one thing is false then the whole thing is false this should affect your belief in the Koran.
Are you doing this deliberately or you lost track of my claims? You are referring the verse 25:53 which is about estuaries where fresh water and salty sea meets.
Are you really willing to claim now that your miracle is that a river has fresh water and a sea salty water. If that is now your current claim then you are faced with the fact coral does not grow in rivers that are fresh water.
The verse 55:22 says coral comes from both seas not the verse after 25:53. The verses 55:19-20 related to Cousteau's finding at Gibraltar where the Atlantic and the Mediterranean meets.

darwinian
Student
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:35 pm

Post #38

Post by darwinian »

In oceanography, a halocline is cline caused by a strong, vertical salinity gradient within a body of water. -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halocline

Now haloclines can be observed by divers, and if you actually google for images for "halocline" you will see pictures of "the halocline effect" taken by divers themselves.

It occurs where a river meets the ocean.

So we know from the Quran that people would dive in those days to take out pearls. (Quran 35:12). So if ancient people were already diving, why can't they have observed the halocline? And hence the source of Muhammad's information about this.

Notice that Muhammad says the barrier is between a salty water and fresh water. Just like a halocline where a river meets the ocean.

It can't be the Gibraltar where two oceans meet, because they are BOTH salty.

User avatar
Mirac
Student
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:00 am

Post #39

Post by Mirac »

hobaleo wrote:
It can't be the Gibraltar where two oceans meet, because they are BOTH salty.
Have you read my post about estuaries?

darwinian
Student
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:35 pm

Post #40

Post by darwinian »

Mirac wrote:
hobaleo wrote:
It can't be the Gibraltar where two oceans meet, because they are BOTH salty.
Have you read my post about estuaries?
All Quranic verses referring to "where two seas meet there is a barrier" are about estuaries.

The "barrier" in question is the halocline.

The halocline (or at least its effect, the so called "halocline effect") is directly observable for a diver that dives in an estuary. (Google-images "halocline" and "halocline effect").

You don't need modern technology to be a diver (as clear from the Quranic verse 35:12 that people in that day already dived to extract pearls).

So the reason Muhammad was talking about such a "barrier" was because people in the ancient times already witnessed the halocline effect in estuaries as divers. That is the source of Muhammad's information about this.

Post Reply