Killed by a lion!!!

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Killed by a lion!!!

Post #1

Post by alexxcJRO »

On one hand we have Jesus teaching about non-violence and turning the other cheek.

38 You have heard that it was said, An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. (Matthew 5:38"41)

On the other hand we have this story:

A man is killed for not wanting to strike a prophet when was asked to do so by the prophet himself.
The prophet wanted a good disguise when he met King Ahab, and he figured a wound would help. So he wanted his neighbor to cut his face, so he could put a bandage on it, so King Ahab wouldn't recognize him when he saw him.
Anyway, this prick of a prophet found another guy who was willing to smite him.

35 Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, Strike me! But the man refused to strike the prophet. 36 Then the prophet told him, Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me. And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him.
37 Then he found another man, and said, Smite me, I pray thee. And the man smote him, so that in smiting he wounded him.
38 So the prophet departed, and waited for the king by the way, and disguised himself with ashes upon his face.

(1 Kings 20:35-38)

This story is so ridiculous, illogical and in contradiction with what Jesus thought that my brain hurt so bad after reading it.

Q: The best way to disguise yourself is to cut your face? Wait what?:))

Q: Why not just put a bandage on your face without the cut?

Q: Why not cover your face, change cloths, cut your hair, facial hair?

Q: Why not cut yourself if you cant think of anything better cuz your no more brighter then a rock? :shock:

Q: But wait the most intelligent, wiser, most powerful being in the universe couldnt have thought of something else? How is that possible? :-s

Q: But wait the most intelligent, wiser, most powerful and compassionate being in the universe kills the man for refusing to engage in violent behavior and while later the same being taught about non-violence? How is that possible? :-s

Q: What about his right to exercise his free will by choosing not to strike? He is not allowed to refuse? So much for free will, huh? 8-)


The only reasonable conclusion is that this stories dont have anything to do with an all powerful, all wise, all merciful, omniscient, omnibenevolent, creator of the universe. These are just actions of stupid, delusional, sociopathic people.

Imagine this dialogue:

Prophet: Hey neighbor come here for a second.

Neighbor: Hey, whats up?

Prophet: Come here and cut my face.

Neighbor: Wait what? Are you serious? Why?

Prophet: Cut my face, man. This is a direct command from god. I need a disguise.

Neighbor: Just bandage your face with a cloth or cut your hair, facial hair, change your cloths.

Prophet: But God command it. You have to do it or else.

Neighbor: Get out here, man. I am not going to cut your face. What are you crazy? Cut your own face.

Prophet: Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me.

And the neighbor leaves.
A lion comes later and kills the neighbor.
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
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Re: Killed by a lion!!!

Post #11

Post by alexxcJRO »

[Replying to ttruscott]

Are you, as one who was not there and completely unknowing of the ways of their business, really that willing to say that from here, thousands of years later that hindsight of the story is more reasonable, when you do not know their reasons?! Neither do people always chose what they know to be reasonable over expedient for instance.

How do you know for certain that the demand to be cut on the face was not for the king at all but to expose the brother prophet, who obviously knew better, as disobedient and self willed, stubborn at heart, and refusing to obey the word of GOD, a capital crime?

Jesus is the Commander of YHWH's army. How He treats the enemies of GOD is not to be expected to be the same as how He encourages people to treat each other. If it is thought that this story contradicts Jesus' teachings then those teachings were read with one eye blind.


First,
God of the Bible 3 manifestations one will. Fathers will is Sons will and vice versa.

God of the Old Testament is the God of the New Testament and vice versa.

God of the Old Testament kills on spot for the smallest sins: this story and Uzzah story for example.

God of the New Testament teaches then if one sins against you to turn the other cheek, dines and he is friendly with sinners.

God of the Bible is unchanging, constant, immutable(you agreed with these here: http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... c&start=90).


Yeah not contradiction, no contrast here. Everything is perfect. Seriously?:))


Secondly,

You have God instruct one of his prophets to cut a mans face for a disguise.

Q: The best way to disguise yourself is to cut your face? Wait what? )

Q: Why not just put a bandage on your face without the cut?

Q: Why not cover your face, change cloths, cut your hair, facial hair?

Q: Why not cut yourself if you cant think of anything better cuz your no more brighter then a rock?

Q: Why did God not magically transformed his appearance just by saying the words?(he has endless ways to do this, he is all powerful and omniscient)

Q: But wait the most intelligent, wiser, most powerful being in the universe couldnt have thought of something else? How is that possible?

Q: But wait the most intelligent, wiser, most powerful and compassionate being in the universe kills the man for refusing to engage in violent behavior and while later the same being taught about non-violence? How is that possible?


Q: What about his right to exercise his free will by choosing not to strike? He is not allowed to refuse? So much for free will, huh?
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."
"God is a insignificant nobody. He is so unimportant that no one would even know he exists if evolution had not made possible for animals capable of abstract thought to exist and invent him"
"Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer."

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Post #12

Post by Elijah John »

alexxcJRO wrote: [Replying to ttruscott]

Are you, as one who was not there and completely unknowing of the ways of their business, really that willing to say that from here, thousands of years later that hindsight of the story is more reasonable, when you do not know their reasons?! Neither do people always chose what they know to be reasonable over expedient for instance.

How do you know for certain that the demand to be cut on the face was not for the king at all but to expose the brother prophet, who obviously knew better, as disobedient and self willed, stubborn at heart, and refusing to obey the word of GOD, a capital crime?

Jesus is the Commander of YHWH's army. How He treats the enemies of GOD is not to be expected to be the same as how He encourages people to treat each other. If it is thought that this story contradicts Jesus' teachings then those teachings were read with one eye blind.


First,
God of the Bible 3 manifestations one will. Fathers will is Sons will and vice versa.

God of the Old Testament is the God of the New Testament and vice versa.

God of the Old Testament kills on spot for the smallest sins: this story and Uzzah story for example.

God of the New Testament teaches then if one sins against you to turn the other cheek, dines and he is friendly with sinners.

God of the Bible is unchanging, constant, immutable(you agreed with these here: http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... c&start=90).


Yeah not contradiction, no contrast here. Everything is perfect. Seriously?:))


Secondly,

You have God instruct one of his prophets to cut a mans face for a disguise.

Q: The best way to disguise yourself is to cut your face? Wait what? )

Q: Why not just put a bandage on your face without the cut?

Q: Why not cover your face, change cloths, cut your hair, facial hair?

Q: Why not cut yourself if you cant think of anything better cuz your no more brighter then a rock?

Q: Why did God not magically transformed his appearance just by saying the words?(he has endless ways to do this, he is all powerful and omniscient)

Q: But wait the most intelligent, wiser, most powerful being in the universe couldnt have thought of something else? How is that possible?

Q: But wait the most intelligent, wiser, most powerful and compassionate being in the universe kills the man for refusing to engage in violent behavior and while later the same being taught about non-violence? How is that possible?


Q: What about his right to exercise his free will by choosing not to strike? He is not allowed to refuse? So much for free will, huh?
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Your extensive use of bolding and CAPS has been reported as a form of ranting. I think there is some merit to the report. It is one thing to use these sparingly to contrast and highlight certain points, but overuse of these things can come across as ranting and shouting.

This post would be considered to not comply with the guidelines on ranting. Please read through the guidelines and abide by them.


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Post #13

Post by alexxcJRO »

"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."
"God is a insignificant nobody. He is so unimportant that no one would even know he exists if evolution had not made possible for animals capable of abstract thought to exist and invent him"
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Re: Killed by a lion!!!

Post #14

Post by 1213 »

alexxcJRO wrote: Q: But wait the most intelligent, wiser, most powerful being in the universe couldnt have thought of something else? How is that possible? :-s
On what basis you say that the prophet was God?
alexxcJRO wrote:Q: But wait the most intelligent, wiser, most powerful and compassionate being in the universe kills the man for refusing to engage in violent behavior and while later the same being taught about non-violence? How is that possible? :-s
On what basis you say that the lion was God?
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Re: Killed by a lion!!!

Post #15

Post by ttruscott »

alexxcJRO wrote:Q: What about his right to exercise his free will by choosing not to strike? He is not allowed to refuse? So much for free will, huh?
FOR future reference I am the one who denies that humans have a free will unless it has been restored to them by the process of a Christian rebirth into the Spirit of Chirst.

When GOD goes against our will, HE is NOT going against our free will but against our sinful will enslaved to the mind clouding qualities of evil.
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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Re: Killed by a lion!!!

Post #16

Post by bluethread »

1213 wrote:
alexxcJRO wrote: Q: But wait the most intelligent, wiser, most powerful being in the universe couldnt have thought of something else? How is that possible? :-s
On what basis you say that the prophet was God?
alexxcJRO wrote:Q: But wait the most intelligent, wiser, most powerful and compassionate being in the universe kills the man for refusing to engage in violent behavior and while later the same being taught about non-violence? How is that possible? :-s
On what basis you say that the lion was God?
Also, who says that Adonai could not think of something else and what makes you think that Yeshua's statement not seeking retribution is a condemnation of all violence?

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Post #17

Post by Zzyzx »

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alexxcJRO wrote: What is CAPS?
Capital letters -- upper case (regarded as raising one's voice electronically).

Occasional use of bold or capital letters is acceptable. However, reliance on either or both to make points is poor form. Using enlarged fonts is very seldom appropriate.


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Re: Killed by a lion!!!

Post #18

Post by alexxcJRO »

[Replying to 1213]

On what basis you say that the prophet was God?

In kings 20:35 the bible clearly states The Lord aka Yahweh(God) instructed the prophet to strike another man.

So I dont know what you've been reading. :-s

35 Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, Strike me! But the man refused to strike the prophet. 36 Then the prophet told him, Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me. And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him.
37 Then he found another man, and said, Smite me, I pray thee. And the man smote him, so that in smiting he wounded him.
38 So the prophet departed, and waited for the king by the way, and disguised himself with ashes upon his face.

(1 Kings 20:35-38)
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."
"God is a insignificant nobody. He is so unimportant that no one would even know he exists if evolution had not made possible for animals capable of abstract thought to exist and invent him"
"Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer."

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Re: Killed by a lion!!!

Post #19

Post by alexxcJRO »

[Replying to post 15 by ttruscott]

FOR future reference I am the one who denies that humans have a free will unless it has been restored to them by the process of a Christian rebirth into the Spirit of Chirst.
When GOD goes against our will, HE is NOT going against our free will but against our sinful will enslaved to the mind clouding qualities of evil.


Firstly,

Dude our sinful will is our free will. :-s

Free Will is a philosophical term of art for a particular sort of capacity of rational agents to choose a course of action from among various alternatives. Alternatives which may include sinful/immoral acts: to kill or not, to steal or not, to harm others or not.

Your beloved Lord aka Yahweh(God) supposedly the most intelligent, wise and compassionate being in the universe through an intermediary engages in coercion using threats and intimidation. (Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me.).

coercion
k()n/Submit
noun
the action or practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.
"it wasn't slavery because no coercion was used"
synonyms: force, compulsion, constraint, duress, oppression, enforcement, harassment, intimidation, threats, insistence, demand, arm-twisting, pressure, pressurization, influence
"it wasn't slavery because no coercion was used"
https://www.google.ro/search?client=ope ... 8&oe=UTF-8


This a perfect example for the mafia boss analogy:

A mafia boss puts a lackey to threaten a person who refuses to do as he says:
The lackey puts the pistol to the mans face. Do this or die.
The man refuse and he is shot.

God through an intermediary says: Do this or die.
The man refuse and he is killed.


Secondly,


Jesus death applies also retroactively upon all sins that have occurred before his death.
So Jesus paid the penalty even for this man so called sin.

Q: If the penalty was paid why was he killed?

Let me put more clearly:

God sacrifices himself so the penalty is paid for all sin across the space-time continuum.
God knows will do this in the future.
Yet even though he paid the penalty for this man sin he kills him for his sin.
How's that for illogical nonsense. 8-)


Also please lets not forget about these questions:

Q: Why did God not magically transformed his appearance just by saying the words?(he has endless ways to do this, he is all powerful and omniscient)

Q: But wait the most intelligent, wiser, most powerful being in the universe couldnt have thought of something else? How is that possible?
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."
"God is a insignificant nobody. He is so unimportant that no one would even know he exists if evolution had not made possible for animals capable of abstract thought to exist and invent him"
"Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer."

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Post #20

Post by alexxcJRO »

[Replying to Zzyzx]

Got it.
No more abusing the formats. :P
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."
"God is a insignificant nobody. He is so unimportant that no one would even know he exists if evolution had not made possible for animals capable of abstract thought to exist and invent him"
"Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer."

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