Killed by a lion!!!

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Killed by a lion!!!

Post #1

Post by alexxcJRO »

On one hand we have Jesus teaching about non-violence and turning the other cheek.

38 You have heard that it was said, An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. (Matthew 5:38"41)

On the other hand we have this story:

A man is killed for not wanting to strike a prophet when was asked to do so by the prophet himself.
The prophet wanted a good disguise when he met King Ahab, and he figured a wound would help. So he wanted his neighbor to cut his face, so he could put a bandage on it, so King Ahab wouldn't recognize him when he saw him.
Anyway, this prick of a prophet found another guy who was willing to smite him.

35 Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, Strike me! But the man refused to strike the prophet. 36 Then the prophet told him, Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me. And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him.
37 Then he found another man, and said, Smite me, I pray thee. And the man smote him, so that in smiting he wounded him.
38 So the prophet departed, and waited for the king by the way, and disguised himself with ashes upon his face.

(1 Kings 20:35-38)

This story is so ridiculous, illogical and in contradiction with what Jesus thought that my brain hurt so bad after reading it.

Q: The best way to disguise yourself is to cut your face? Wait what?:))

Q: Why not just put a bandage on your face without the cut?

Q: Why not cover your face, change cloths, cut your hair, facial hair?

Q: Why not cut yourself if you cant think of anything better cuz your no more brighter then a rock? :shock:

Q: But wait the most intelligent, wiser, most powerful being in the universe couldnt have thought of something else? How is that possible? :-s

Q: But wait the most intelligent, wiser, most powerful and compassionate being in the universe kills the man for refusing to engage in violent behavior and while later the same being taught about non-violence? How is that possible? :-s

Q: What about his right to exercise his free will by choosing not to strike? He is not allowed to refuse? So much for free will, huh? 8-)


The only reasonable conclusion is that this stories dont have anything to do with an all powerful, all wise, all merciful, omniscient, omnibenevolent, creator of the universe. These are just actions of stupid, delusional, sociopathic people.

Imagine this dialogue:

Prophet: Hey neighbor come here for a second.

Neighbor: Hey, whats up?

Prophet: Come here and cut my face.

Neighbor: Wait what? Are you serious? Why?

Prophet: Cut my face, man. This is a direct command from god. I need a disguise.

Neighbor: Just bandage your face with a cloth or cut your hair, facial hair, change your cloths.

Prophet: But God command it. You have to do it or else.

Neighbor: Get out here, man. I am not going to cut your face. What are you crazy? Cut your own face.

Prophet: Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me.

And the neighbor leaves.
A lion comes later and kills the neighbor.
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."
"God is a insignificant nobody. He is so unimportant that no one would even know he exists if evolution had not made possible for animals capable of abstract thought to exist and invent him"
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Re: Killed by a lion!!!

Post #2

Post by 4insight »

[Replying to post 1 by alexxcJRO]

God was showing us how corrupted we are. How we cannot do what is right. We cannot be changed. Eventhough, He had them to kill all of the evil ones, they still became corrupted. And so it says to clean the inside of the cup and dish so that the outside will be clean. Which it means to get rid of the evil that is in us first so that the body will not be corrupted. By seeking revenge for justice, it means that evil is still inside of us, eventhough we has gotten justice. That is why God said to let vengeance be for him to handle.

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Re: Killed by a lion!!!

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Post by DanieltheDragon »

[Replying to post 2 by 4insight]

C'tait quoi en anglais?
Post 1: Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:48 am Otseng has been banned
Otseng has been banned for having multiple accounts and impersonating a moderator.

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Re: Killed by a lion!!!

Post #4

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 1 by alexxcJRO]

Jesus taught his Christian followers to be non-violent; He did not give Christians authorization to take human life under any circumstances. This does not however mean that Jesus himself or his Father did not have the right to take a life.

Indeed, Jesus indicated that he had been appointed to judge the unrighteous and that those would be killed during the final destruction of the wicked. Leading the angelic forces as Michael the Archangel, Jesus will himself fight the final war of Armageddon killing the incorrigibly wicked and ridding the earth of Satan and his demons. In short, neither Jesus nor Jehovah God are "pacifists" believing all killing is bad.

In the light of the above, the fact that in ancient times, God judged individuals as wicked and executed or gave others the authority to execute them, is in no way contradictory. Jehovah's Witnesses believe He will do so again in the near future, one final time.

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Re: Killed by a lion!!!

Post #5

Post by Clownboat »

4insight wrote:God was showing us how corrupted we are.
I assume you are speaking for yourself. Why do you think you are so corrupt and have you always had issues with honesty?
How we cannot do what is right.
Again, you must be speaking for yourself. Why can you not do what is right? I am able to be honest and I do what is right (defined in this case by not doing things I would not want others to do to me).
We cannot be changed.
I feel sorry for you for the outlook you have on life if you truly feel this way. Perhaps if you try hard enough, you can change and become un-corrupt and honest. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

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Re: Killed by a lion!!!

Post #6

Post by 4insight »

Clownboat wrote:
4insight wrote:God was showing us how corrupted we are.
I assume you are speaking for yourself. Why do you think you are so corrupt and have you always had issues with honesty?
How we cannot do what is right.
Again, you must be speaking for yourself. Why can you not do what is right? I am able to be honest and I do what is right (defined in this case by not doing things I would not want others to do to me).
We cannot be changed.
I feel sorry for you for the outlook you have on life if you truly feel this way. Perhaps if you try hard enough, you can change and become un-corrupt and honest. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.
These verses should help you to understand yourself..


2 Corinthians 3:15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts.

Exodus 20:17 You shall not covet your neighbors house. You shall not covet your neighbors wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.

Matthew 5:28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

John 8:5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?

John 8:7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.

1 John 1:10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

Galatians 2:14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?

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Re: Killed by a lion!!!

Post #7

Post by ttruscott »

alexxcJRO wrote:This story is so ridiculous, illogical and in contradiction with what Jesus thought that my brain hurt so bad after reading it.
Are you, as one who was not there and completely unknowing of the ways of their business, really that willing to say that from here, thousands of years later that hindsight of the story is more reasonable, when you do not know their reasons?! Neither do people always chose what they know to be reasonable over expedient for instance.

How do you know for certain that the demand to be cut on the face was not for the king at all but to expose the brother prophet, who obviously knew better, as disobedient and self willed, stubborn at heart, and refusing to obey the word of GOD, a capital crime?

Jesus is the Commander of YHWH's army. How He treats the enemies of GOD is not to be expected to be the same as how He encourages people to treat each other. If it is thought that this story contradicts Jesus' teachings then those teachings were read with one eye blind.
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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Re: Killed by a lion!!!

Post #8

Post by alexxcJRO »

[Replying to JehovahsWitness]


Jesus taught his Christian followers to be non-violent; He did not give Christians authorization to take human life under any circumstances. This does not however mean that Jesus himself or his Father did not have the right to take a life.
Indeed, Jesus indicated that he had been appointed to judge the unrighteous and that those would be killed during the final destruction of the wicked. Leading the angelic forces as Michael the Archangel, Jesus will himself fight the final war of Armageddon killing the incorrigibly wicked and ridding the earth of Satan and his demons. In short, neither Jesus nor Jehovah God are "pacifists" believing all killing is bad.
In the light of the above, the fact that in ancient times, God judged individuals as wicked and executed or gave others the authority to execute them, is in no way contradictory. Jehovah's Witnesses believe He will do so again in the near future, one final time.


First,
The contradiction is plain as day.

We have a God of the New Testament aka Jesus teaching about non-violence, turning the other cheek, dining, being friendly with sinners.

5 While Jesus was having dinner at Levis house, many tax collectors and sinners were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. 16 When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?
17 On hearing this, Jesus said to them, It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.


While on the other hand we have a God of the Old Testament who kills a man guilty of the sin of not hitting other man on command.

Q: Hows that not a big of a contrast?


Secondly,

The problems in the questions I presented still remain:
This story is so ridiculous.

Q: The best way to disguise yourself is to cut your face? Wait what? )

Q: Why not just put a bandage on your face without the cut?

Q: Why not cover your face, change cloths, cut your hair, facial hair?

Q: Why not cut yourself if you cant think of anything better cuz your no more brighter then a rock?

Q: But wait the most intelligent, wiser, most powerful being in the universe couldnt have thought of something else? How is that possible?

Q: But wait the most intelligent, wiser, most powerful and compassionate being in the universe kills the man for refusing to engage in violent behavior? How is that possible?

Q: What about his right to exercise his free will by choosing not to strike? He is not allowed to refuse? So much for free will, huh? (He was bullied in choosing the right choice). He is not allowed to refuse? So much for free will, huh?


Please answer the questions. 8-)
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."
"God is a insignificant nobody. He is so unimportant that no one would even know he exists if evolution had not made possible for animals capable of abstract thought to exist and invent him"
"Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer."

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Re: Killed by a lion!!!

Post #9

Post by Clownboat »

4insight wrote:
Clownboat wrote:
4insight wrote:God was showing us how corrupted we are.
I assume you are speaking for yourself. Why do you think you are so corrupt and have you always had issues with honesty?
How we cannot do what is right.
Again, you must be speaking for yourself. Why can you not do what is right? I am able to be honest and I do what is right (defined in this case by not doing things I would not want others to do to me).
We cannot be changed.
I feel sorry for you for the outlook you have on life if you truly feel this way. Perhaps if you try hard enough, you can change and become un-corrupt and honest. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.
These verses should help you to understand yourself..
They don't. No more than a bowl of soup does anyways.
Either way, please leave me out of your claims. These are your burdens to bear, not mine. By your own admission you are corrupt and therefore cannot be trusted anyways.

Why did you dodge my questions? You didn't even address your corruptness.
Why are you so corrupt and why are you not able to correct this poor behavior of yours?

Please answer the questions. Your scripture verse dodges are not appreciated and they hold no sway over me any longer since I have been set free.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

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Re: Killed by a lion!!!

Post #10

Post by OnceConvinced »

4insight wrote:
These verses should help you to understand yourself..


2 Corinthians 3:15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts.

Exodus 20:17 You shall not covet your neighbors house. You shall not covet your neighbors wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.

Matthew 5:28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

John 8:5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?

John 8:7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.

1 John 1:10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

Galatians 2:14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?


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Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.

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