WHOSE SIDE WAS GOD ON IN WW2?

[2Dbunk]

Gott mit uns (God is with us) was stamped on the German soldiers belt buckle in both WW1 and WW2. They lost both wars so their very Christian leaders evidently led their youth down the primrose path to destruction. At the same time here in America God has undoubtedly blessed us also (because we are a Christian country), and we were a significant party to winning both wars. I ask how can the same God be on both sides in such global conflicts? Was one (or both) of these nations dissembling in their gross presumption that God had anything to do with their participation in the two wars?

Seneca, a Roman philosopher, once said: Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful. That was about the time of Christ " the world hasnt learned much in all that time, has it? The common people continue to be led by the nose by rulers who know how to manipulate them.

So, whose side was God on in WW2?

Is this a valid question?

Was Seneca wrong in his pronouncement?

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 1 by 2Dbunk]

I think it's a strange thing for a people group to imagine taking on the jews again. How many times do they have to lose before they wonder if it's not just them?

Sadly I think there will be a lot more times.

If you look at revelations I tend to think my side will look like the losing side until we win - even though winning is not in doubt.

In relation to Seneca how many illusions does his viewpoints apply to? Democracy, fairness, justice, love, patriotism. Sadly for him - we just won't know until we go who is actually wise and who is a fool. If he is right, then I hope his genes continued to today. Did they?

[Willum]

[Replying to post 4 by 1213]

So you are saying that:
Since only 14% of the population of Germany was Nazi, the rest, the soldiers, women and children who were killed and bombed to death...
But that since most of the actual ruling Nazi's escaped...

Just what are you saying? God allowed the innocent Germans to die, and spared the Nazi-Germans?

That's a [you can't say that on DCR] concept.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 11 by Wootah]

Hi Woot', the Jews have been eliminated a few times in history. Dispersed many times. In fact, like other sects, if you assume that the Nazi's desired to take out the Ashkenazi or considered by themselves the "true" Jews, they did succeed.
Check out:
viewtopic.php?t=31967

In short, the argument is out there, if they aren't who they say they are, just who are they?

Just another people, like all the rest of us, who have suffered THE SAME injustices as the rest of us. The difference is: The rest of us don't whine about it.

Stalin killed 4 million Jews, and 40 million of the rest of us: What about the rest of us, who died horrible of cold and starvation? Those who DID NOT SURVIVE concentration camps, to complain about them?

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to post 1 by 2Dbunk]

Neither.

He was on the side of his son's kingdom Government and his people here on earth that were announcing it. Christianity is incompatible with human war. Jesus told his followers to love their enemies.

JW

And yet God Himself ordered the Jews to wipe out their enemies utterly. It's one of the great contradictions of the Bible, wouldn't you agree?

[William]

[Replying to post 14 by Tired of the Nonsense]

Citations please.

Thanks

W

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to post 14 by Tired of the Nonsense]

Citations please.

Thanks

W

Numbers 31

[15] And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
[16] Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
[17] Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
[18] But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Joshua 6

[20] So the people shouted when the priests blew with the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city.
[21] And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.

Ezekiel 9

[4] And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
[5] And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:
[6] Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.
[7] And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.

Joshua 11:19-20New International Version (NIV)

19 Except for the Hivites living in Gibeon, not one city made a treaty of peace with the Israelites, who took them all in battle. 20 For it was the Lord himself who hardened their hearts to wage war against Israel, so that he might destroy them totally, exterminating them without mercy, as the Lord had commanded Moses.

Samuel 1 15:

[2] Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
[3] Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

[William]

[Replying to post 16 by Tired of the Nonsense]

What you have quoted there is biblical reference to atrocities carried out by others who claimed that GOD had told them to do this.

As such, this is not evidence that GOD told them to do anything. Anyone can claim GOD told them to do 'this' or 'that', does not mean to say GOD told them.
Claims require evidence.

And yet God Himself ordered the Jews to wipe out their enemies utterly. It's one of the great contradictions of the Bible, wouldn't you agree?

It depends on ones reference.

It has been proved the the Jews are good at making up stories, so it stands to reason that they got this talent from their Israeli fore-bearers.

A hand-me-down nonsense, but more importantly an extremely damaging one if indeed any true GOD did exist, because - as you should agree - this puts a stain...a bloodstain on GOD - an evil thing which had to eventually be dealt with, thus - Jesus and his version of GOD...something which appended, seems to appear as an evolution from the extremely bloodthirsty to the not so bloodthirsty and pointing into the direction of never bloodthirsty.

Chose ye this day which you will serve.

Deal with the contradictions.

Pointing fingers soon transform into swords.

[Elijah John]

Gott mit uns (God is with us) was stamped on the German soldiers belt buckle in both WW1 and WW2. They lost both wars so their very Christian leaders evidently led their youth down the primrose path to destruction. At the same time here in America God has undoubtedly blessed us also (because we are a Christian country), and we were a significant party to winning both wars. I ask how can the same God be on both sides in such global conflicts? Was one (or both) of these nations dissembling in their gross presumption that God had anything to do with their participation in the two wars?

Seneca, a Roman philosopher, once said: Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful. That was about the time of Christ " the world hasnt learned much in all that time, has it? The common people continue to be led by the nose by rulers who know how to manipulate them.

So, whose side was God on in WW2?

Is this a valid question?

Was Seneca wrong in his pronouncement?

So are you comparing the USA to Nazi Germany, making a moral equivalency between the two?

If so, don't you think that is a ridiculous comparison?

The answer, it seems is self evident. If there is a God and He is compassionate and takes sides, why wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that He sided with the rescuers and not those who were attempting to commit genocide against Jews and others?

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to post 17 by William]

What you have quoted there is biblical reference to atrocities carried out by others who claimed that GOD had told them to do this.

True. My post was directed at the claim by JehovahsWitness that Christianity and the teachings of Jesus are incompatible with human war. And yet in the OT God is specifically indicated as commanding that the enemies of the Hebrews be wiped out utterly. These two opinions simply are not compatible.

As such, this is not evidence that GOD told them to do anything. Anyone can claim GOD told them to do 'this' or 'that', does not mean to say GOD told them.
Claims require evidence.

The OT very clearly indicates that God Himself commanded that mass murder be carried out. To claim that God was NOT responsible for the command undermines the authority of the Bible, since the Bible has been declared to be the very Word of God. If the Bible IS NOT THE WORD OF GOD, then it is simply the meanderings of ancient humans. All claims based upon what is written in the Bible are meaningless.

Which brings us all, I believe, to exactly to the point that you are attempting to make.

[bjs]

So, whose side was God on in WW2?

My own opinion is this: God is not on the side of any nation. Nations and wars and all such things are just raw material. God is with people.

Many Nazis did horrible things. And then there were many German soldiers who were just trying to survive a war. The black-and-white thinking which portrays all Axis as evil and all Allies as good (or godly) is too simplistic. God wants people to turn to Him in repentance from all of their sins, from the simplest lies to the worst atrocities. During WWII both side committed many atrocities.

Was Seneca wrong in his pronouncement?

Historically speaking, religion has been a double-edged sword for most leaders. It might be useful, or it might be their downfall.

Christianity, for instance, teaches submission to authority, peaceful living, and self-sacrifice. These qualities all make for good citizens and many rulers might find them valuable.

On the other hand, Christianity also creates people who are willing to give up everything, including their lives, for what they believe in. When what they believe and what the ruler wanted did not coincide, Christians have been among the most troubling citizens for many rulers.

So I guess my answer to the quote is: Its never that simple.