Happy Anniversary?

[myth-one.com]

Today, June 20th 2009, is the eighth anniversary of the sacrifice Andrea Yates made for her children. Had she not murdered them, Noah would be 15 years old, John would be 13, Paul 11, Luke 10, and Mary would be 8. Instead, they were murdered by their mother so they would go immediately to live with God eternally in the paradise of heaven, thus avoiding the possibility of eternal torment in hellfire.

Is this a victory for Christianity?

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 19 by bjs]

They were part of the quiverfull movement. It is non denominational and can be found in a variety of evangelical denominations. To be fair many denominations refuse psychiatric and psychological medical advice not just Christian scientists. Just look at the Duggars refusing to get their son psychiatric treatment in favor of a Christian "therapy".

[bjs]

[Replying to DanieltheDragon]

Im going to have to ask you to support the claim that many denominations refuse psychiatric and psychological medical advice as a doctrinal stance. Many individuals, both theists and non-theists, refuse the advice of psychiatrists and psychologists for a variety of reasons. Christians Scientists are the only large group I am aware of who claim to follow Christ and deny medical treatment as part of their belief system. The belief is not part of the quiverfull movement on the whole, though many in that movement do oppose optional fertility treatment.

[OpenYourEyes]

Today, June 20th 2009, is the eighth anniversary of the sacrifice Andrea Yates made for her children. Had she not murdered them, Noah would be 15 years old, John would be 13, Paul 11, Luke 10, and Mary would be 8. Instead, they were murdered by their mother so they would go immediately to live with God eternally in the paradise of heaven, thus avoiding the possibility of eternal torment in hellfire.

Is this a victory for Christianity?

While the end result will most likely be good, which is being in Heaven, but the means (murder) used to reach that end result was immoral. Thou shall not murder is a very clear moral instruction.

Andrea Yates does not represent true Christianity. She was totally ignorant and unreasonable in her conclusions, assuming she did not have ulterior motives or psych problems.

[Bust Nak]

Probably they understand their own theology. However it is possible that they dont understand what Jesus said. According to Jesus eternal life is for righteous. If person is not righteous, he will not get eternal life, if Bible Jesus is correct.

And you are saying you are not sure if children are righteous or not? How does your own theology deal with the death of infants?

I have not enough knowledge to tell who really are righteous. Bible tells that eternal life is for righteous. I think the same condition is for all people.

Ok, the obvious follow up question is, do you think it just for infants to end up in hell, somehow unrighteous despite having done nothing immoral?

[Bust Nak]

While the end result will most likely be good, which is being in Heaven, but the means (murder) used to reach that end result was immoral. Thou shall not murder is a very clear moral instruction.

Andrea Yates does not represent true Christianity. She was totally ignorant and unreasonable in her conclusions, assuming she did not have ulterior motives or psych problems.

Not Christian sure, but is it unreasonable? 4 in heaven trumps 1 in hell I would say.

[Danmark]

Today, June 20th 2009, is the eighth anniversary of the sacrifice Andrea Yates made for her children. Had she not murdered them, Noah would be 15 years old, John would be 13, Paul 11, Luke 10, and Mary would be 8. Instead, they were murdered by their mother so they would go immediately to live with God eternally in the paradise of heaven, thus avoiding the possibility of eternal torment in hellfire.

Is this a victory for Christianity?

Just the opposite. I have represented people like Yates who killed their children to "send them to heaven." Any religion that teaches the most important things, the things of highest value will be found after death rather than in this life has its values backward and encourages these kinds of acts.

This doctrine stands as a reason to expose the false foundation of Christianity. False beliefs always lead to poor decisions and may be outright dangerous. We cannot always predict how false information and beliefs will cause dysfunctional decisions, but the result of decisions made on bad facts is inevitable.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to DanieltheDragon]

Im going to have to ask you to support the claim that many denominations refuse psychiatric and psychological medical advice as a doctrinal stance. Many individuals, both theists and non-theists, refuse the advice of psychiatrists and psychologists for a variety of reasons. Christians Scientists are the only large group I am aware of who claim to follow Christ and deny medical treatment as part of their belief system. The belief is not part of the quiverfull movement on the whole, though many in that movement do oppose optional fertility treatment.

The quiverfull movement specifically is insular from the outside world. Which is why they homeschool and why when Josh Duggar was molesting little girls they handled it in house.

Examples of more widespread doctrinal disregard for medical science is found in the ex-gay ministries. Sarah Bachman and her Husband for example operate ex gay treatment facilities. Even, though both APA's have condemned the practice as ineffective and abusive to the clients it is claiming to help. These facilities are not run by Christian scientists.

The Catholic Church told Africans that condoms will spread STDs. This is an egregious example as it has helped spread the transmission of AIDS in Africa.

We could do this all day if you want but I fear it is going off topic.

[Clownboat]

Today, June 20th 2009, is the eighth anniversary of the sacrifice Andrea Yates made for her children. Had she not murdered them, Noah would be 15 years old, John would be 13, Paul 11, Luke 10, and Mary would be 8. Instead, they were murdered by their mother so they would go immediately to live with God eternally in the paradise of heaven, thus avoiding the possibility of eternal torment in hellfire.

Is this a victory for Christianity?

While the end result will most likely be good, which is being in Heaven, but the means (murder) used to reach that end result was immoral. Thou shall not murder is a very clear moral instruction.

Andrea Yates does not represent true Christianity. She was totally ignorant and unreasonable in her conclusions, assuming she did not have ulterior motives or psych problems.

You do realize that she would likely say the exact same thing about you? She killed her children after all. I'm pretty sure she is/was convinced that she is the 'true Christian'.

How many martial artists does it take to change a light bulb? All of them. One to change it, and the rest to tell them that there way is better.
How many Christians does it take to define a true Christian? All of them. One to define it, and the rest to tell them that there way is better.

[Goat]

I partly blame religion, because her pastor and her husband refused to let her get the medical care she needed, due to their religious beliefs. I blame her for letting them say NO to the medical treatment she needed.

I had not heard this either. What tradition are they are part of? The only major group that claims to follow Christ and denies medical treatment is Christian Scientists, a cult (in the technical sense of the word) that is at best on the outside fringe of Christianity.

The tradition was 'More children', and it was 'being taken off of anti-psychotics' so she could get pregnant again. They did so against medical advice, because her husband's desire to procreate because of his religious beliefs.

[myth-one.com]

[center]Happy Anniversary?[/center]

Yesterday was June 20th 2016, the fifteenth anniversary of the five Yates children being murdered in Houston, Texas. Had they lived, Noah would be 22 years of age, John would be 20, Paul 18, Luke 17, and Mary 15.

According to most Christians, they are presently and eternally with God in heaven -- thus avoiding the possibility of eternal torment in hellfire had they lived past their innocent years.

Their Christian mother and murderer believed, had faith, and acted on what she was taught by Christianity. According to great evangelists, her efforts succeeded.

She murdered her children in their "innocent" years. That is, before they reached the age of accountability and became individually responsible for their sins.

Thus, having died sinless, they received a free pass to eternal bliss in Heaven thanks to their loving Christian mother.

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Is this "Christian" theology wrong?

If not wrong, can anyone explain how it can be correct?

How can the murder of innocent children have a good outcome under true Christian theology?

On this anniversary, I apologize once again for my past history of teaching and supporting this false "Christian" theology!

Jesus wept.