Many failed predictions of Jesus return..

[Elijah John]

Matthew 16:27-28 New International Version (NIV)

27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Fathers glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
28 Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.

There have been many failed predictions of the "2nd coming of Christ". Most notably, Charles Taze Russell who predicted Jesus would return in 1914. When he didn't return, the prediction was revised to mean an "invisible return".

For debate, in light of the quoted passage from Matthew, was Jesus the first person to mistakenly predict his return?

How is Jesus prediction different from any of the others who have mistakenly predicted the time of his return?

[JehovahsWitness]

If you're suggesting that no-one saw Jesus ascend to heaven, this then becomes a claim without any type of evidence to support, not even what Christians would typically call an "eyewitness".

I'm claiming that the bible account has the words " a cloud hid him from their sight.... in it.

I am suggesting the words "hid him from their sight" are there to convey some kind of meaning.



JW

[Willum]

[Replying to post 8 by JehovahsWitness]

Now that you say the word symbolically, I believe you.
When the Bible describes God as a real thing, it is speaking symbolically.
God only exists as a symbol.

This solves all problems of the religion very neatly.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 8 by JehovahsWitness]

Now that you say the word symbolically, I believe you.

Good its always nice to feel something has been achieved.

Symbolism does in my opinion have a place in biblical interpretation.


JW

[Willum]

[Replying to post 23 by JehovahsWitness]

And in turn, it is good to see that you agree that God only exists symbolically.
Now that you understand this, you can begin making good spiritual growth, and begin working as a deliberate force for good, and not illusion.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 2 by JehovahsWitness]

I suppose it comes down to how the words attributed to Jesus in the bible text are interpreted.

Bingo!

That is basically what many a debate on these forums is about.

Many words, in the Bible and in most languages, have different emphasis or usage, so this does trip up at times.

Therefore, care needs to be taken to properly research such before arriving at a definite explanation or interpretation.

Indeed, I couldn't agree more.


I have been studying the bible for over 30 years and find it an immensly satisfying subject of research. Anyway, I have presented the Jehovah's Witness interpretation.

JW

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 2 by JehovahsWitness]

I suppose it comes down to how the words attributed to Jesus in the bible text are interpreted.

Bingo!

That is basically what many a debate on these forums is about.

Many words, in the Bible and in most languages, have different emphasis or usage, so this does trip up at times.

Therefore, care needs to be taken to properly research such before arriving at a definite explanation or interpretation.

Indeed, I couldn't agree more.


I have been studying the bible for over 30 years and find it an immensly satisfying subject of research. Anyway, I have presented the Jehovah's Witness interpretation.

JW

So how does the "some standing here will not taste death" part play in the original language?

How does the rendering in the orignal language uphold the reliability of this statement attributed to Jesus?

In plain language, it really seems that Jesus was wrong.

No matter how one stretches the term "this generation", the phrase "some standing here" cannot be stretched to mean anything beyond "some standing here", i.e. Jesus contemoprary hearers.

[tam]

Peace to you EJ,

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

For debate, in light of the quoted passage from Matthew, was Jesus the first person to mistakenly predict his return?

How is Jesus prediction different from any of the others who have mistakenly predicted the time of his return?

No (to question one).

He did not predict a date for His return. That should also answer the second question.


He said,

"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."


As to the passage under discussion:


"Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom. Matthew 16:28


John (of Patmos) did not taste death until he saw the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom. John was taken in the spirit TO the Lord's Day (Rev 1:10) where he saw Christ coming in His Kingdom. John saw many other things at that time as well.

So John (of Patmos) is at least one person who did not taste death before seeing the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom.




Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[polonius]

Peace to you EJ,

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

For debate, in light of the quoted passage from Matthew, was Jesus the first person to mistakenly predict his return?

How is Jesus prediction different from any of the others who have mistakenly predicted the time of his return?

No (to question one).

He did not predict a date for His return. That should also answer the second question.


He said,

"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."


As to the passage under discussion:


"Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom. Matthew 16:28


John (of Patmos) did not taste death until he saw the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom. John was taken in the spirit TO the Lord's Day (Rev 1:10) where he saw Christ coming in His Kingdom. John saw many other things at that time as well.

So John (of Patmos) is at least one person who did not taste death before seeing the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom.




Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

QUESTION: Do you belief everything you read? If my friend Ralph made the same claim you attribute to John Patmos, should we regard it as true?

[1213]

Matthew 16:27-28 New International Version (NIV)

27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Fathers glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
28 Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.

That prediction came true after few days according to the Bible. it is not failed prophesy, unless we ignore what the Bible tells in Matthew 17 and then we could as well ignore the claim of wrong prediction.

After six days, Jesus took with him Peter, James, and John his brother, and brought them up into a high mountain by themselves. He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his garments became as white as the light. Behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them talking with him.
Matt. 17:1-3

[JehovahsWitness]

No matter how one stretches the term "this generation", the phrase "some standing here" cannot be stretched to mean anything beyond "some standing here", i.e. Jesus contemoprary hearers.

In plain language, it really seems that Jesus was wrong.

The primary consideration in my opinion on this issue is context (it seems to have escaped the attention of a lot of people that Jesus was speaking on two separate occasions to two different audiences about two different subjects).

To illustrate: A man says to a shop assistant showing him an expensive watch, he exclaims "I love it, I buy it! "
The same man the following spring says to his butcher showing him a turkey "I'll eat it"
At the end of his life the man is dying, his pastor tells him about heaven and the man says "I believe it"

The question comes up "What is the "it"the man was refering to? Heaven? A watch or a turkey? Some would argue since its the same man and he uses the SAME WORD ( "it" ) it must be the same thing. They may even go on the internet to argue that since there is no evidence the man ate his watch, wore his heaven or prayed pray to go to his turkey, the writer or the man must be in error.

• The more sensible approach however would be to ask, who was he speaking to? What were the surrounding circumstances? When did each did was each declaration made? Who was present? What was the stated purpose of the exchange ? And apply a little common sense.

That's the Jehovah's Witnesses methodology but this approach is not to everyone's liking.

JW