Jesus' Return

[William]

If there is one belief that seems to thread throughout Christian beliefs as commonly shared, it is that of the return of Jesus.

In pondering on this idea, I am left wondering as to the relevance of it as a belief to hold in today's day and age.

I can understand that up to the age of technology and especially this age of information [the information age] such a belief would not have been able to be easily regarded as overly questionable, but with our current knowledge of the universe we can understand that should the promised event happen, people would be more inclined to regard it as explainable in terms of our current knowledge.

What this means is that if an army of beings descended upon the planet, we would naturally understand these as being extraterrestrial.

In regard to that, we would also be less likely to believe any claims that they were our creators in the sense of having to proclaim them as 'gods' and their leader as 'god' or the representative thereof. In this case, Jesus.

If indeed these beings then got about 'cleaning up the world' of the corrupt war-mongering humans in positions of power, and set up a workable system in which parity becomes the normal, and gave peace a chance, there would still be no reason to worship these beings, (or the single leader) as if they were gods.

If we look at it another way - say humans were the ET and did this to another planetary species - would we not simply consider this to be something we decided we ought to do, and discourage the planets people from worshiping us?

Sure, we would not scorn their respect, and their gratefulness for us using our superior technology and power to overcome those who suppressed them and kept them engaged in systems of disparity, but there would be no reason for us to condone, let alone make it a stipulation that they ought worship us as gods.

Yet the belief through Christian doctrine clearly tells us that this is a stipulation, and those who do not agree to it will be separated from those who do.

It seems to me that there would be a problem with today's current population accepting such stipulation on the grounds that the opportunity afforded by the ET allow for the ability to build a system of parity doesn't and shouldn't require any of us worship the ET as gods. If it did, then the only reason they 'saved' us was so that they could become our new masters, and blackmail us with either accepting their terms or going without.

Q: In relation to the above, how would you respond to ET demanding you worship them as gods, and why?

[William]

[Replying to post 2 by tam]

It does not seem to me that angels (spirit beings) - are going to demand worship. At least not those angels who are loyal to Christ and to His Father. If people did intend to bow down and worship them instead (or as well), then it seems to me - and according to the example of the angel (Michael) above - that the angels would immediately tell people NOT to do that.

The point being of course, that even if the demand was for everyone to worship the leader of the ET, they worship the whole ET race by proxy.

This is problematic when GOD is portrayed in any form. It immediately becomes the idol.

[1213]

It is interesting that you argue that the bible GOD demands no worship, which appears contrary to biblical writ.

For example;

Philippians 2;
9 Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place and gave Him the name above all names, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

I dont think bowing to someone is same as worshiping him. Is there reason why I should think they are the same?

[William]

[Replying to post 22 by 1213]

Why don't you think that? Generically, getting on ones knees is a signature of worshiping whatever/whoever one is doing it to.

[1213]

[Replying to post 22 by 1213]

Why don't you think that? Generically, getting on ones knees is a signature of worshiping whatever/whoever one is doing it to.

It would be nice to know where do you get that idea. And it would be also interesting to know, is it from the Bible. After all, if we speak about Bible telling that people should worship, we should know what it means with that word. The problem is, Bible doesnt seem to use that word often. And actually, I dont remember any part where Bible or God literally demands worshiping.

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 22 by 1213]

The problem is, Bible doesnt seem to use that word often. And actually, I dont remember any part where Bible or God literally demands worshiping.

Jesus seemed to think it was written somewhere:

Luke 4:8 (NASB)

Jesus answered him, "It is written, 'YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD AND SERVE HIM ONLY.'"

I'm not sure exactly what he is quoting here, but given that Luke is part of the Bible, this verse qualifies.

[FWI]

[Replying to post 1 by William]

In relation to the above, how would you respond to ET demanding you worship them as gods, and why?

The first thing we would need to grasp properly is: What is meant by the biblical understanding of worship? It isn't what most think it is! So, to put it in simple terms "worship" means to have gratitude towards someone. Thus, being in a frame of mind of devotion or ardent attachment or loyalty to that someone. But, gratitude for what?

Well, the N.T. gives us a perfect example. There were about 10 lepers, who were pleading with the Christ for a healing. He tells them to go and shows themselves to the priests. And, as they went, compassion was shown to them (they were all cured). Yet, only one of them (a foreigner) returned to give "gratitude" to the Christ for his healing. However, what about the other nine? They did as the Christ asked, but they didn't show any "respect" for the gift given to them (at that time).

We can also have an ardent attachment and loyalty to our family members, especially our spouses. Children, also have this special type of relationship with their parents. There could be gratitude for others that are outside the family structure, such as, certain officials and friends.

So, as you seem to imply that extraterrestrial life may exist, there can only be one type of source for this reality and that is known as: God or the Supreme Being, the Son of God and celestial beings or angels.

Hence, when we review the story of the return of the Christ with his angels, there will be no "olive branch offered" or negotiating. There will be war! All uprisings will swiftly be put down and the Kingdom of God will be established. Then, there will be peace, plenty for all and an offering of life beyond the physical. But, after the first thousand years of this peace and plenty, the adversary will be released for a short time and rebellion will again be present. This, as well, will swiftly end. Then, those who remain, will finally understand that the only way to peace and happiness, is through the ways offered by God.

Therefore, "gratitude" or "worship" will finally be given to our Creator, by all who exist and it won't be forced unto them...

[William]

[Replying to post 26 by FWI]

Q: How would you respond to ET demanding you worship them as gods, and why?

[William]

So far we have a variety of answers, and some of those contradict the generic idea of worship of people and/or objects - perhaps in order to facilitate the belief that ET/inter-dimensional beings are going to save us - not from ourselves but from others who are in controlling positions whom - even that the biblical GOD put them there - are suppressing our need to work together for the good of one another in a system of parity - one which is promised will be created by the ET/inter-dimensional beings upon the return of Jesus.

Some have said that gratitude is the way to worship this idea of GOD, prompting the idea that this is represented symbolically as 'bending the knee and claiming Jesus' father as 'LORD', only - of course - after he has overcome the powers that are presently manipulating the world. For where is the need for gratitude until then?

Why, it is in the belief that one is saved and will avoid hell/eternal non-existence. The worship is then centered on going along with what one is told to, rather than uprising and demanding change and building the system of parity - this 'Kingdom of GOD'.

Then, would it be appropriate for me to expect - if not a chorus of objection, at least one or two individuals who will claim that the 'Kingdom of GOD' is not about parity?

One weakness in the story I identify is that apparently the Antichrist has to show himself and deceive everyone but the believers and rule for a period of time, over the affairs of mankind.

Thus, all such an individual has to do is to remain hidden from sight and manipulate said affairs of mankind from that position and Jesus can never return as predicted.

If the 2.2 billion Christians dropped their belief in this and focused upon building the system they believe that Jesus and the host will build, the world would experience an amazing shift in that direction and who would complain about that and resist that movement? The Atheists?

Hard to say, but one will never know unless it is attempted.

I would say that part of gratitude is expressed in this very kind of attitude - to want to give to a world that which is claimed, Jesus gave to Christians.

[William]

If the 2.2 billion Christians dropped their belief in this and focused upon building the system they believe that Jesus and the host will build, the world would experience an amazing shift in that direction and who would complain about that and resist that movement? The Atheists?

Sometimes the silence from Christians makes me wonder if the rapture has happened...then I realize that - no - it is something else...they are still here on this planet, silently wishing they were not ... as usual.

[1213]

[Replying to post 22 by 1213]

The problem is, Bible doesnt seem to use that word often. And actually, I dont remember any part where Bible or God literally demands worshiping.

Jesus seemed to think it was written somewhere:

Luke 4:8 (NASB)

Jesus answered him, "It is written, 'YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD AND SERVE HIM ONLY.'"

I'm not sure exactly what he is quoting here, but given that Luke is part of the Bible, this verse qualifies.

Thanks. In that bowing is translated as worshiping. I would like to know why. But anyway, if bowing means worship, I can accept that only one who we should bow, is God.