"The Bible Tells Me So"

[William]

We know that the bible shows us that Jesus never wrote anything which is in the Bible. Other people wrote down [alleged] that which Jesus is reported as having said.
We also know that the bible tells us that what is alleged that Jesus said is but a tiny fraction of what Jesus actually taught. The Bible contains very little [in comparison] in relation to words Jesus allegedly used to teach with.
We know that the bible tells us that what Jesus taught which the Bible did not record, were the mysteries hidden from The World regarding the Nature of his Fathers Kingdom.
We do not know that Jesus never wrote anything, but we do know that there is nothing in the world which is claimed to have come from his pen. He may have written down those many more other things the bible does not record, or perhaps scribes were with him and wrote those things down... but we know that if that were the case, those writings have not been shown to The World. They may exist, but are kept hidden.

IF those things not recorded, are hidden from us, how can we know about them? Does being a "Christian" have anything to do with those unknown things Jesus taught of? Is being a "Christian" something else entirely?

I think it must do, based upon the evidence we have.

I think that Christians are somewhat confused as to their place in the scheme of things as they cannot help but KNOW that what is in the Bible is second hand news - not directly from the pen of Christ, so they are not really 'following Jesus' by 'keeping his word' because they do not know WHAT it was that Jesus SPOKE about those things of mystery [his Father Kingdom] that the Bible author wrote Jesus actually taught to people in secrets. They are "keeping the word of others" who :said so" in writing.

I just asked Google:

"How much of the New Testament scriptures were written by the Apostle Paul? "

Based on the word counts of the 1769 edition of KJV from Bible stats, here's how it works out: Paul wrote 50190/179011 or 28% of the NT.

I also just asked Goggle:

"How many words did Christ speak in the bible" [I left out the word "Allegedly]

The Synoptic Gospel , once you exclude the duplications of Jesus' speeches in the four gospels, the total number of words spoken by Jesus is 31,426."]

Therefore it can be correctly ascertained that Christians are generally "Keeping the word of Paul" in relation to how many words Paul wrote in his teachings, compared to how many teachings are recorded as having come from Jesus.

Also Christians believe that The Bible is "The Word of God" when the Bible itself claims that Jesus is "The Word of God". so their appears to be a possible reason therein as to why Christians appear so confused.

Can we detect in Paul's writing any of these multitude "Secrets" Jesus is said to have taught in private, regarding his Fathers Kingdom, and if so, how are we able to ascertain that Paul was writing the same things as Jesus had taught, if we have no actual record of what Jesus taught?

And - with that, why would The Father want others to write on behalf of Jesus and have us trust that those others would teach the same things that Jesus taught?

Christians only KNOW about what Jesus is reported to have said, which is obviously so very little, as that Bible author suggests.

[William]

There don't even appear to be any sketches from the authors, showing us what "Jesus" looked like. Sure, it could be said that some of them were talented enough to draw, and so may well have done so, but we have not been given access to any such drawings if they exist, and no drawings appear in the Bible from the actual hand of any of the authors - some Bibles do contain imagery...but this imagery has been imagined by later artists who are only painting their own impressions of the words they have read in the Bible.

May I ask, in your opinon, how important is it to know what Jesus looked like ? Indeed few, if any of the participants in this forum know what their fellow posters look like, is this of any importance?



JW

It is of no importance on the one hand. My mention of it was not to complain that we have no picture of what Jesus looked like. It was in parley with the observation that human beings have always drawn pictures to accompany their stories, and the absence of such pictures is therefore an important question to be asking "Why?"


In terms of "is it important' if one thinks it important to have some kind of imagery regarding what Jesus looks like and what Jehovah looks like, and what angels and demons look like etc, one only need to peruse the artwork on that subject, on most every religious site - Jehovah's Witness sites included.


So you need to be directing your question to those who obviously think it is important to have an image of what Jesus looks like.

Hopefully that answers your question.

[JehovahsWitness]

It was in parley with the observation that human beings have always drawn pictures to accompany their stories, and the absence of such pictures is therefore an important question to be asking "Why?"

Well there are pictures in scriptures, but they are word pictures (descriptions of physical things). What Jesus looked like just happens not to ne one of them. As for why inspired scripture doesn't include drawings, I think (and this is my personal opinion) it is because ..

(a) reading and visualization is in itself a gift that helps readers develop their own imagination.

(b) much of the content of scripture deals with abstract ideas or spiritual realms difficult to illustrate

(c) unlike the written word , paintings and drawings are difficult to accurately reproduce by hand

(d) illustrating the entire bible canon would make for an extremely large compilation which would be impractlcle to use

(e) An illustrated bible would have been very costly to copy / print before our present electronique age.

None of course would have been insurmountable challenges for an omnipotent God but wisdom dictates not creating "problems" if one can get the same results without them. In time artists would put the word pictures in the bible to "canvas" /print but biblically the inspired writers remain just that, writers not writers and artists.

So you need to be directing your question to those who obviously think it is important to have an image of what Jesus looks like.

I will consider doing so if one such person happens to post on the subject and I see it.

[William]

How important is it to know what Jesus looked like ?

You need to be directing your question to those who obviously think it is important to have an image of what Jesus looks like.

I will consider doing so if one such person happens to post on the subject and I see it.

You only need to observe when they post pictures accompanying their particular beliefs, as do Jehovah's Witnesses. Therein you will identify those who appear to think it is important to know what Jesus looked like...or at least to show us what they think Jesus looked like...

Anyway, my point stands...

"There don't even appear to be any sketches from the authors, showing us what "Jesus" looked like. Sure, it could be said that some of them were talented enough to draw, and so may well have done so, but we have not been given access to any such drawings if they exist, and no drawings appear in the Bible from the actual hand of any of the authors - some Bibles do contain imagery...but this imagery has been imagined by later artists who are only painting their own impressions of the words they have read in the Bible."

Do you have any argument against his observation being untrue?

[JehovahsWitness]

You only need to observe when they post pictures accompanying their particular beliefs, as do Jehovah's Witnesses. Therein you will identify those who appear to think it is important to know what Jesus looked like...

Emphasis MINE


I don't usually correspond with "appearances" as one can easily end up argung against a straw man. If someone tells me that they feel it is {quote } "important to know what Jesus looked like" {end quote} I'll be happy to ask them why. I find it best not to impose my assumptions on other peoples values, I might be accused of being presumptuous (or even obnoxious) if I did.


JW

[William]

You only need to observe when they post pictures accompanying their particular beliefs, as do Jehovah's Witnesses. Therein you will identify those who appear to think it is important to know what Jesus looked like...

Emphasis MINE

What better explanation would there be?

[brunumb]

In terms of "is it important' if one thinks it important to have some kind of imagery regarding what Jesus looks like and what Jehovah looks like, and what angels and demons look like etc, one only need to peruse the artwork on that subject, on most every religious site - Jehovah's Witness sites included.

The images presented are all important aspects of the mental manipulation of those observing them. They are not based on any reality, like the composite one you posted, so one has to conclude that they are creating a favorable but clearly false impression.

[JehovahsWitness]

You only need to observe when they post pictures accompanying their particular beliefs, as do Jehovah's Witnesses. Therein you will identify those who appear to think it is important to know what Jesus looked like...

Emphasis MINE

What better explanation would there be?

One explanation could be that rather than thinking it is important to know what Jesus looked like, they might simply understand the teaching value of drawn illustrations.

"A picture is worth a thousand words" is an English language adage meaning that complex and sometimes multiple ideas can be conveyed by a single still image, which conveys its meaning or essence more effectively than a mere verbal description.

- wikipedia.org

We dont know what Jesus looked like as there is no description of his physicality in scripture. This does not mean however there can be no value in depicting him in image or film form. A lot of information can conveyd about what Jesus is depictiped as doing and the life he lead by illustrating bible scenes . Indeed any teacher knows how powerful the use of image can be.




For Jehovahs Witnesses it is important our illustrations are close to the bible description as possible, (from very humble beginnings, our illustrators we have progressed over the centuries in this regard). We try and make reasonable assumptions about what Jesus might have looked like, but fully recognize that our illustrators and film producers are making artistic choices based on personal taste and a reasonable amount of bible based speculation.

Whether Jesus indeed had a round face or a long one, if his hair was straight or wavey, whether he stood at 6 foot 3 or 5 foot 6 is of absolutely no consequence to us as Jehovahs Witnesses. It is what he said and did that is vital in our opinion

In short, while it isnt important what Jesus looked like, Jehovahs Witnesses know how powerful illustrations can be. We have extensively used illustrations for this reason and try to depict Jesus the man, as one could reasonable assume a man from that region with his background to have looked.

JW




RELATED POSTS

Why are there no pictures in the bible?
viewtopic.php?p=1031258#p1031258

[Tcg]

For Jehovahs Witnesses it is important our illustrations are close to the bible description as possible, (from very humble beginnings, our illustrators we have progressed over the centuries in this regard).

Over the centuries? Your branch of Christianity originated in the 1870s. That's about 150 years.


Tcg

[JehovahsWitness]

Over the centuries? Your branch of Christianity originated in the 1870s. That's about 150 years.


Tcg

What century was the 1800's?
What century was the 1900's?
What century are the the 2000's?

How many centuries can you count above? 1 2 or 3?

JW

COUNTING

taking account of when reaching a total; including. "there were three of us in the family, or four counting my pet rabbit"

[Tcg]

Over the centuries? Your branch of Christianity originated in the 1870s. That's about 150 years.


Tcg

What century was the 1800's?
What century was the 1900's?
What century are the the 2000's?

How many centuries can you count above? 1 2 or 3?

JW

How many centuries are 150 years? One century plus fifty years. Century singular not centuries plural.

I am glad, however, to see you admit that your branch of Christianity started in the 1870s.


Tcg