"The Bible Tells Me So"

[William]

We know that the bible shows us that Jesus never wrote anything which is in the Bible. Other people wrote down [alleged] that which Jesus is reported as having said.
We also know that the bible tells us that what is alleged that Jesus said is but a tiny fraction of what Jesus actually taught. The Bible contains very little [in comparison] in relation to words Jesus allegedly used to teach with.
We know that the bible tells us that what Jesus taught which the Bible did not record, were the mysteries hidden from The World regarding the Nature of his Fathers Kingdom.
We do not know that Jesus never wrote anything, but we do know that there is nothing in the world which is claimed to have come from his pen. He may have written down those many more other things the bible does not record, or perhaps scribes were with him and wrote those things down... but we know that if that were the case, those writings have not been shown to The World. They may exist, but are kept hidden.

IF those things not recorded, are hidden from us, how can we know about them? Does being a "Christian" have anything to do with those unknown things Jesus taught of? Is being a "Christian" something else entirely?

I think it must do, based upon the evidence we have.

I think that Christians are somewhat confused as to their place in the scheme of things as they cannot help but KNOW that what is in the Bible is second hand news - not directly from the pen of Christ, so they are not really 'following Jesus' by 'keeping his word' because they do not know WHAT it was that Jesus SPOKE about those things of mystery [his Father Kingdom] that the Bible author wrote Jesus actually taught to people in secrets. They are "keeping the word of others" who :said so" in writing.

I just asked Google:

"How much of the New Testament scriptures were written by the Apostle Paul? "

Based on the word counts of the 1769 edition of KJV from Bible stats, here's how it works out: Paul wrote 50190/179011 or 28% of the NT.

I also just asked Goggle:

"How many words did Christ speak in the bible" [I left out the word "Allegedly]

The Synoptic Gospel , once you exclude the duplications of Jesus' speeches in the four gospels, the total number of words spoken by Jesus is 31,426."]

Therefore it can be correctly ascertained that Christians are generally "Keeping the word of Paul" in relation to how many words Paul wrote in his teachings, compared to how many teachings are recorded as having come from Jesus.

Also Christians believe that The Bible is "The Word of God" when the Bible itself claims that Jesus is "The Word of God". so their appears to be a possible reason therein as to why Christians appear so confused.

Can we detect in Paul's writing any of these multitude "Secrets" Jesus is said to have taught in private, regarding his Fathers Kingdom, and if so, how are we able to ascertain that Paul was writing the same things as Jesus had taught, if we have no actual record of what Jesus taught?

And - with that, why would The Father want others to write on behalf of Jesus and have us trust that those others would teach the same things that Jesus taught?

Christians only KNOW about what Jesus is reported to have said, which is obviously so very little, as that Bible author suggests.

[William]

Interesting. Looking up a few stats and doing some simple arithmetic, I found the following:

If Jesus spoke 31,426 words (excluding duplicated speeches), and in the New Testament there are on average 629 words per page (181,253 NT words divided by 288 NT pages source)

The words of Jesus would fill 50 (49.96) pages, which is only 17% of the New Testament (50 divided by 288 total NT pages)


.

If you are taking the total number of words in the NT, then removing the duplicated words of Jesus falsely skews your numbers.

I don't think that is the case. If for example the NT only recorded one instance of Jesus saying anything and that statement was, "God is Love", but repeated the story 500 times, that wouldn't be 1,500 words of Jesus. It would be three words of Jesus repeated 500 times.


Tcg

Yes - it is a bit of hair-splitting really - I mean how many times is Jesus said to have used the words "My Father"? Should that be counted every time?

But it doesn't matter because the point was there are more words in the Bible authored by other teaches, than there are in the alleged teachings of Jesus.

I agree. There is also a drastic difference in the tone of the Sermon on the Mount and the books attributed to Paul for instance. Of course there is also a drastic difference in the tone of the Sermon on the Mount and the parable of the Wheat and Tares. The alleged words of Jesus don't mesh very well at times. When we discuss the teachings of Jesus I sometimes think we might need to start by explaining which Jesus we are referring to. When we then begin to include the teachings by Paul and others, it can get real messy.


Tcg

You are welcome to explore that rabbit hole but I prefer to think that whoever the real individual the character "Jesus" in the bible was modelled off of, , that it is okay [human] of that character to have bad hair days...but I am more interested in the secret Jesus than the public one...and the Bible says sweet stuff all about that...

[Tcg]

Interesting. Looking up a few stats and doing some simple arithmetic, I found the following:

If Jesus spoke 31,426 words (excluding duplicated speeches), and in the New Testament there are on average 629 words per page (181,253 NT words divided by 288 NT pages source)

The words of Jesus would fill 50 (49.96) pages, which is only 17% of the New Testament (50 divided by 288 total NT pages)


.

If you are taking the total number of words in the NT, then removing the duplicated words of Jesus falsely skews your numbers.

I don't think that is the case. If for example the NT only recorded one instance of Jesus saying anything and that statement was, "God is Love", but repeated the story 500 times, that wouldn't be 1,500 words of Jesus. It would be three words of Jesus repeated 500 times.


Tcg

Yes - it is a bit of hair-splitting really - I mean how many times is Jesus said to have used the words "My Father"? Should that be counted every time?

But it doesn't matter because the point was there are more words in the Bible authored by other teaches, than there are in the alleged teachings of Jesus.

I agree. There is also a drastic difference in the tone of the Sermon on the Mount and the books attributed to Paul for instance. Of course there is also a drastic difference in the tone of the Sermon on the Mount and the parable of the Wheat and Tares. The alleged words of Jesus don't mesh very well at times. When we discuss the teachings of Jesus I sometimes think we might need to start by explaining which Jesus we are referring to. When we then begin to include the teachings by Paul and others, it can get real messy.


Tcg

You are welcome to explore that rabbit hole but I prefer to think that whoever the real individual the character "Jesus" in the bible was modelled off of, , that it is okay [human] of that character to have bad hair days...but I am more interested in the secret Jesus than the public one...and the Bible says sweet stuff all about that...

I'm not going down a rabbit hole. Simply taking note of the obvious. The parable of the Wheat and the Tares is from the secret Jesus. A story told to his insiders. His sweet stuff was generally reserved for the public. You catch more flies with honey and all that. Once you've caught them there's no need to comb your hair at all.


Tcg

[William]

Interesting. Looking up a few stats and doing some simple arithmetic, I found the following:

If Jesus spoke 31,426 words (excluding duplicated speeches), and in the New Testament there are on average 629 words per page (181,253 NT words divided by 288 NT pages source)

The words of Jesus would fill 50 (49.96) pages, which is only 17% of the New Testament (50 divided by 288 total NT pages)


.

If you are taking the total number of words in the NT, then removing the duplicated words of Jesus falsely skews your numbers.

I don't think that is the case. If for example the NT only recorded one instance of Jesus saying anything and that statement was, "God is Love", but repeated the story 500 times, that wouldn't be 1,500 words of Jesus. It would be three words of Jesus repeated 500 times.


Tcg

Yes - it is a bit of hair-splitting really - I mean how many times is Jesus said to have used the words "My Father"? Should that be counted every time?

But it doesn't matter because the point was there are more words in the Bible authored by other teaches, than there are in the alleged teachings of Jesus.

I agree. There is also a drastic difference in the tone of the Sermon on the Mount and the books attributed to Paul for instance. Of course there is also a drastic difference in the tone of the Sermon on the Mount and the parable of the Wheat and Tares. The alleged words of Jesus don't mesh very well at times. When we discuss the teachings of Jesus I sometimes think we might need to start by explaining which Jesus we are referring to. When we then begin to include the teachings by Paul and others, it can get real messy.


Tcg

You are welcome to explore that rabbit hole but I prefer to think that whoever the real individual the character "Jesus" in the bible was modelled off of, , that it is okay [human] of that character to have bad hair days...but I am more interested in the secret Jesus than the public one...and the Bible says sweet stuff all about that...

I'm not going down a rabbit hole. Simply taking note of the obvious. The parable of the Wheat and the Tares is from the secret Jesus. A story told to his insiders. His sweet stuff was generally reserved for the public. You catch more flies with honey and all that. Once you've caught them there's no need to comb your hair at all.

Where is this parable that I can take a look for myself to see what it is your are referencing here...

[bjs1]

There is also a drastic difference in the tone of the Sermon on the Mount and the books attributed to Paul for instance.

This is a strange statement since 1 Corinthians 7 (a letter attributed to Paul) directly cited the Sermon on the Mount, said that the command came from Jesus, and then described the exact same theology that is found in the Sermon on the Mount. How can you account for something like this and still say that the letters attributed to Paul have a drastic difference in tone compared to the Sermon on the Mount?

[tam]

Peace to you all,

We know that the bible shows us that Jesus never wrote anything which is in the Bible. Other people wrote down [alleged] that which Jesus is reported as having said.

Okay...

We also know that the bible tells us that what is alleged that Jesus said is but a tiny fraction of what Jesus actually taught. The Bible contains very little [in comparison] in relation to words Jesus allegedly used to teach with.

Can you quote the verse(s) that you are referring to here?

We know that the bible tells us that what Jesus taught which the Bible did not record, were the mysteries hidden from The World regarding the Nature of his Fathers Kingdom.

Again, can you quote the verse(s) that you are referring to here? If you are referring to something like Matthew 13, for example, then you seem to be reading something more into the text than is written.

For example, Christ told the crowds the parable of the sower and seed. His disciples asked Him why he spoke to the people in parables. He told them,

“Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables:

“Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:

“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15
For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’[a]

He then states to His disciples:

But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17 For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means:

So you can see that He then explains what the parable means to His disciples (in private), and this IS recorded. Same with the second parable, which begins: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field.

He told the parable to the crowd, and then in private, He explained the meaning of it to His disciples, and that explanation is recorded.


But perhaps you were referring to something else?


**

As for the Word of God, yes, the Word of God is Christ. (Rev 19:3; Luke 1:1-2; John 1:14) Not the bible.

See also:

viewtopic.php?p=1018054#p1018054
viewtopic.php?p=1024729#p1024729
viewtopic.php?p=927265#p927265


Peace again to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[William]

Peace to you all,

Pease on this room in this house.

We know that the bible shows us that Jesus never wrote anything which is in the Bible. Other people wrote down [alleged] that which Jesus is reported as having said.

Okay...

We also know that the bible tells us that what is alleged that Jesus said is but a tiny fraction of what Jesus actually taught. The Bible contains very little [in comparison] in relation to words Jesus allegedly used to teach with.

Can you quote the verse(s) that you are referring to here?

Yes.

We know that the bible tells us that what Jesus taught which the Bible did not record, were the mysteries hidden from The World regarding the Nature of his Fathers Kingdom.

Again, can you quote the verse(s) that you are referring to here?

Sure - you can find it in this post from another thread on this forum

If you are referring to something like Matthew 13, for example, then you seem to be reading something more into the text than is written.

For example, Christ told the crowds the parable of the sower and seed. His disciples asked Him why he spoke to the people in parables. He told them,

“Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables:

“Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:

“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15
For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’[a]

He then states to His disciples:

But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17 For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means:

So you can see that He then explains what the parable means to His disciples (in private), and this IS recorded. Same with the second parable, which begins: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field.

He told the parable to the crowd, and then in private, He explained the meaning of it to His disciples, and that explanation is recorded.


But perhaps you were referring to something else?

Yes. Something connected to that story, but something else...a more detailed account as to the nature of the vollum of information Jesus taught people in private.

As for the Word of God, yes, the Word of God is Christ. (Rev 19:3; Luke 1:1-2; John 1:14) Not the bible.

Not the bible? (Rev 19:3; Luke 1:1-2; John 1:14) the irony...

[tam]

William, I am not responding to yet another thread that you create to deal with the same topic If you would like to support the things that you have said in this thread, for this topic, then do so. If not, I will simply move on...


Peace still.

[William]

William, I am not responding to yet another thread that you create to deal with the same topic If you would like to support the things that you have said in this thread, for this topic, then do so. If not, I will simply move on...

The link is there Tammy. It exists for that purpose. One can invite another in peace, and the other can accept or reject that peaceful invitation as they choose.

'Til we meet again - go well

eta

Manu Iti has asked me to convey to you his "Peace upon your room, wherever that may be."

[William]

There is also a drastic difference in the tone of the Sermon on the Mount and the books attributed to Paul for instance.

This is a strange statement since 1 Corinthians 7 (a letter attributed to Paul) directly cited the Sermon on the Mount, said that the command came from Jesus, and then described the exact same theology that is found in the Sermon on the Mount. How can you account for something like this and still say that the letters attributed to Paul have a drastic difference in tone compared to the Sermon on the Mount?

As the OP covers, the tones are the product of the underlying attitudes and overall personalities of the authors whos stories were used to compile the Bible.

This is why we cannot easily know the actual "Jesus" because what he taught is being interpreted through the filters of said authors overtones and then presented in written word format. There don't even appear to be any sketches from the authors, showing us what "Jesus" looked like. Sure, it could be said that some of them were talented enough to draw, and so may well have done so, but we have not been given access to any such drawings if they exist, and no drawings appear in the Bible from the actual hand of any of the authors - some Bibles do contain imagery...but this imagery has been imagined by later artists who are only painting their own impressions of the words they have read in the Bible.
As well as that, the impressions might be something that the artists were commissioned to draw and do not come directly from even their own impression that the stories give to them as individuals.

That said, in relation to the stories being interpreted, everyone does so by putting said stories through the filters of their own 'tones', further adding to the confusion...to the schism...

[JehovahsWitness]

There don't even appear to be any sketches from the authors, showing us what "Jesus" looked like. Sure, it could be said that some of them were talented enough to draw, and so may well have done so, but we have not been given access to any such drawings if they exist, and no drawings appear in the Bible from the actual hand of any of the authors - some Bibles do contain imagery...but this imagery has been imagined by later artists who are only painting their own impressions of the words they have read in the Bible.

May I ask, in your opinon, how important is it to know what Jesus looked like ? Indeed few, if any of the participants in this forum know what their fellow posters look like, is this of any importance?



JW