What's God made of?

[JoeyKnothead]

Late edit to clean quotes...

From Post 182 here:

...
God is not made of matter...
...

For debate:

What's God made of?

[nobspeople]

What's God made of?

If God is infinite, then the question ceases to make any sense.

If.

If the Christian could show they speak truth, we wouldn't hafta keep asking em to try to show they can make em any sense.

If one were to ask : "what is a cake "made of"? ... one is effectively asking "What pre-existing elements combined to result in the cake?"

God's made of eggs and flour, and the pretty thing hasta beat em both together, and had to stuff God there in the oven, and I can't have me none bit of God unless I eat me them nasty little green peas?

Since nothing can "preexist" an infinite God then what is God made of become nonsense question.

I challenge you to show you speak truth regarding the following...

Now before you get all discombobulated, I ain't asking you to "show God", as I've come to learn that upsets you to high heaven, cause ya can't, but what I ask is...

I challenge you to show you speak truth regarding....

"An infinite God"

What kind of body does God have ?

Beats me, but if you said a '49 Mercury, I wouldn't fuss a bit.

The bible* indicates God has a spirit body.

Your comments indicate you can't put you the first bit of truth to that claim.

What are the elements of a "spirit body"? I don't know.

Your not knowing is the one thing about ya, I won't challenge.

(That last part was for nobspeople)

Yet ya told it to us all.

Maybe other religions are like this, but, speaking for christianity, it's a religion of 'if's'. IF god is real, IF god knew this, IF god wanted that, IF god.... IF IF IF IF.... It's tiring with no knowledge to be had - only faith.
Maybe it's ironic that FIATH as IF at the beginning of the word, but backwards....?
Like SUN gives light as some say The SON does as well...?
Numerology with words...Maybe not. Christianity doesn't seem to like numerology from what I've been told

[JoeyKnothead]

Late edit to clean quotes...

From Post 182 here:

...
God is not made of matter...
...

For debate:

What's God made of?

Shifting registers for a moment may help. i.e., What is 'justice' made of? Arguably nothing. Perhaps nothing more than the stuff of ideas. Yet we have secular 'temples' the world over devoted to its cause (and rightly so methinks). So while justice is arguably nothing (nothing substantial that is), we nevertheless feel its force. It calls us and compels us to bring what it calls for into the world.

So too God. As such, God is not nothing, but God is nothing substantial either. God is some wispy, insubstantial thing that the bible calls 'spirit.'

Your task now becomes one of showing that 'spirt' exists.

That said, there is another answer to this, as God's composition can change over time.

Stating a claim doesn't magically make it true.

Sticking with the 'justice' example. Justice is arguably also the sum total of those who answer its call. Justice, in a real, substantial sense is 'made' of those, or those moments, where it is allowed to reign.

If everyone thought they were answering bigfoot's call, would that make it real?

So too God. Which at the end times, at the eschaton, will literally be 'made' of all things'. i.e., As Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:28 "...then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all."

More empty, unsupported assertion.

Just cause someone has the ability to produce a book that doesn't make the stuff writ within to be true.

[brunumb]

Shifting registers for a moment may help. i.e., What is 'justice' made of? Arguably nothing. Perhaps nothing more than the stuff of ideas. Yet we have secular 'temples' the world over devoted to its cause (and rightly so methinks). So while justice is arguably nothing (nothing substantial that is), we nevertheless feel its force. It calls us and compels us to bring what it calls for into the world.

So too God. As such, God is not nothing, but God is nothing substantial either. God is some wispy, insubstantial thing that the bible calls 'spirit.'

All you have done is confirm that God is nothing more than a concept. We don't feel the force of justice itself, what we feel is the force of people acting on their understanding of the concept of justice. So too with God. God does nothing himself. Throughout history all we have ever had is people acting as alleged intermediaries for this God and taking advantage of the special status that gives them in the eyes of the gullible.

[theophile]

Shifting registers for a moment may help. i.e., What is 'justice' made of? Arguably nothing. Perhaps nothing more than the stuff of ideas. Yet we have secular 'temples' the world over devoted to its cause (and rightly so methinks). So while justice is arguably nothing (nothing substantial that is), we nevertheless feel its force. It calls us and compels us to bring what it calls for into the world.

So too God. As such, God is not nothing, but God is nothing substantial either. God is some wispy, insubstantial thing that the bible calls 'spirit.'

All you have done is confirm that God is nothing more than a concept.

'Concept' may be too generic for what I'm saying. I would equate God / spirit more to a movement, which does have an idea (or ideas) at its core, but that also has a life to it. Something like 'the 'spirit of an age'. Something we can get caught up in. Something that can come over us and move us. Something that can ebb and flow across time but with a real power to unite us and direct our action.

We don't feel the force of justice itself, what we feel is the force of people acting on their understanding of the concept of justice. So too with God. God does nothing himself. Throughout history all we have ever had is people acting as alleged intermediaries for this God and taking advantage of the special status that gives them in the eyes of the gullible.

Your view here is incomplete. Sure, there have been lots of people doing what you say, and more often than not I would say you are right. It is certainly a danger that never goes away and that we all need to be vigilant against, especially when it comes to our own 'understanding' (why do you think God chose 'Israel'? God wants to be challenged and for us to challenge each other...). But it is unfair and reductive to say that this is "all we have ever had."

To stick with the justice example, are you certain there has never been a moment of real justice? Or someone in the whole of history who got it right, even just once? That someone actually heard the call and did what was needed to bring it about?

That's what I hear you saying. And I think we see glimpses of it all the time whether intentional or not.

[theophile]

Late edit to clean quotes...

From Post 182 here:

...
God is not made of matter...
...

For debate:

What's God made of?

Shifting registers for a moment may help. i.e., What is 'justice' made of? Arguably nothing. Perhaps nothing more than the stuff of ideas. Yet we have secular 'temples' the world over devoted to its cause (and rightly so methinks). So while justice is arguably nothing (nothing substantial that is), we nevertheless feel its force. It calls us and compels us to bring what it calls for into the world.

So too God. As such, God is not nothing, but God is nothing substantial either. God is some wispy, insubstantial thing that the bible calls 'spirit.'

Your task now becomes one of showing that 'spirt' exists.

What, do you think I'm talking about something that can be physically measured? I was pretty clear I am not.

But let me build on what I just said to brunumb, i.e., that by 'spirit' I mean something more like a movement, which has an idea (or ideas) at its core, but that as a movement also has a life to it.

Something like the 'Me Too' movement (for a recent historical example). Do I need to prove that existed? I think we all know that it did, even if the 'spirit' behind it can't really be shown.

That said, there is another answer to this, as God's composition can change over time.

Stating a claim doesn't magically make it true.

No it does not. But maybe my further definition helps clarify this move on my part. The 'composition' of the 'Me Too' movement can change over time, right? It was composed (and had far more power behind it) two years ago (say) than it does today.

So what I said here is less a jump in my argument than it is an unpacking of the kind of 'reality' (i.e., spirit) under discussion here. It is an implicit fact of how 'spirit' works.

Sticking with the 'justice' example. Justice is arguably also the sum total of those who answer its call. Justice, in a real, substantial sense is 'made' of those, or those moments, where it is allowed to reign.

If everyone thought they were answering bigfoot's call, would that make it real?

This is similar to brunumb's response to me. Along the lines of my response to them, no, I don't care what people 'think' they are doing. I don't care what people 'know' they are doing either for that matter. All that matters to me is whether their actions are in the spirit.

In the case of 'Me Too', it is hearing and answering the call to not take advantage of one's power. To not rape, sexually assault, coerce, or violate the personal space of another. To treat women with fairness and respect. Etc. Etc. We can be part of that movement (and answer that call) whether we know it or not.

I do not wear a 'Me Too' support badge but I'm in the spirit of that movement (and give power to that movement) every time I treat women on my team with respect.

So too God. Which at the end times, at the eschaton, will literally be 'made' of all things'. i.e., As Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:28 "...then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all."

More empty, unsupported assertion.

Just cause someone has the ability to produce a book that doesn't make the stuff writ within to be true.

Of course not. Did I say that it did?

But again, this statement from Paul is an implicit fact of the spirit reality we are discussing here.

Answer me this, is it not possible (even if unlikely) that everyone is some day in the spirit of 'Me Too'? Could we not reasonably envision a future where everyone acts more or less in conformity with the ideas at the heart of that movement?

Absolutely we could. And it is precisely this possibility inherent to spirit that Paul is inviting us to consider here. (i.e., "..so that God MAY be all in all.")

But look, if using the name of God is your stumbling block, throw it out. I don't think there's anything in the bible that can't be converted and understood in secular terms.

[JehovahsWitness]

If God is infinite, then the question ceases to make any sense.

"If"? "IF"? "If god is infinite"? There's a question?

Yes, "If..." introduces a conditional clause; it can be used to present a supposition while avoiding making a specific claim. "If there is an omnipotent God he could logically do anything he wishes". Is different from saying "There is an omnipotent God who can logically do anything he wishes" which might be perceive as a unprovable claim.

I usually use conditionals ( ... or suppositions, hypothesis etc ) when discussing God in this subforum in order to respect forum guidelines while also avoiding making any absolute claims in this regard.This hopefully avoids being sidetracked by challenges to prove God's existence when that is not the point of discussion.

Insight on the Scriptures. 1. Watch Tower Society. 2018. p. 969. says Jehovah's Witnesses believe God is infinite.

Yes that is true.

.... are you one of those renegade Jehovah's Witnesses?

Why do you ask?

JW

[JoeyKnothead]

What, do you think I'm talking about something that can be physically measured? I was pretty clear I am not.

After reading your reply to brunumb above, I see I totally misunderstood what you were saying. I don't try to mischaracterize the words of others, but maybe I wanted to read what I wanted to read.

For that I apologise to you personally, and to the forum. There was no ill intent, but getting it so wrong is embarrassing, to say the least.

But let me build on what I just said to brunumb, i.e., that by 'spirit' I mean something more like a movement, which has an idea (or ideas) at its core, but that as a movement also has a life to it.
...

I couldn't agree more.

[Miles]

.... are you one of those renegade Jehovah's Witnesses?

Why do you ask?

Because your organization declares god to be infinite while you hedge your bet.


.

[JehovahsWitness]

.... are you one of those renegade Jehovah's Witnesses?

Why do you ask?

Because your organization declares god to be infinite while you hedge your bet.


.

The exact quote is "The true God is infinite and beyond the mind of man fully to fathom". I believe that statement is correct.








JW


NOTE All posts I write represent my personal faith based beliefs as one of Jehovah's Witnesses

I usually use conditionals ( ... or suppositions, hypothesis etc ) when discussing God in this subforum in order to respect forum guidelines while also avoiding making any absolute claims in this regard.This hopefully avoids being sidetracked by challenges to prove God's existence when that is not the point of discussion.

[JoeyKnothead]

The exact quote is "The true God is infinite and beyond the mind of man fully to fathom". I believe that statement is correct.

I believe you'll never show a god you can't show exists is infinite, nor all the rest of that.