A Question Unanswered, When in Church...

[POI]

During the last year or so of attending church, I was still reluctant to ask probing questions for fear of 'rocking the boat'. In the back of each chair were suggestion/question cards, which anyone could fill out and turn in... I asked the same question, about a dozen times, and never received any type of response.

For debate:

Why would an all knowing and all loving God ever place favor towards one specific race, the Jews?

[POI]

Jews are not a race BTW.

"Jewish people
Ethnic group
Jews or Jewish people are an ethnoreligious group and nation originating from the Israelites and Hebrews of historical Israel and Judah. Jewish ethnicity, nationhood, and religion are strongly interrelated, as Judaism is the ethnic religion of the Jewish people,"

The rest of your response is based upon a false premise. So I will await another response.

Other examples exist, where god favors a race. When he speaks about Israelites, for example.

So Jews are not a race, thanks. I did not expect my clear answers to your questions to be challenged either way.

You can choose your ethnicity/race? I thought not... Please formulate a new argument. I'll be waiting.

That has nothing to do with the fact you are incorrect about Jews being a race. Do you concede that point or are you going to die on that hill that Jews are a race?

Sure. As you stated prior, I misspoke If this tiny and insignificant quibble makes you happy, then I'll give it to you. However, the argument doesn't change. Not in the slightest.

God places favor upon folks, who possess attributes they cannot control. Is this wise? What does a bloodline, hair color, gender, eye color, etc, matter to a supreme deity? Shouldn't all be judged upon their own merit? It almost seems like this is instead an ancient human invented concept...? What do you think?

[AquinasForGod]

Jews are not a race BTW.

"Jewish people
Ethnic group
Jews or Jewish people are an ethnoreligious group and nation originating from the Israelites and Hebrews of historical Israel and Judah. Jewish ethnicity, nationhood, and religion are strongly interrelated, as Judaism is the ethnic religion of the Jewish people,"

The rest of your response is based upon a false premise. So I will await another response.

Other examples exist, where god favors a race. When he speaks about Israelites, for example.

So Jews are not a race, thanks. I did not expect my clear answers to your questions to be challenged either way.

You can choose your ethnicity/race? I thought not... Please formulate a new argument. I'll be waiting.

That has nothing to do with the fact you are incorrect about Jews being a race. Do you concede that point or are you going to die on that hill that Jews are a race?

Sure. As you stated prior, I misspoke If this tiny and insignificant quibble makes you happy, then I'll give it to you. However, the argument doesn't change. Not in the slightest.

God places favor upon folks, who possess attributes they cannot control. Is this wise? What does a bloodline, hair color, gender, eye color, etc, matter to a supreme deity? Shouldn't all be judged upon their own merit? It almost seems like this is instead an ancient human invented concept...? What do you think?

God places favor on people that he knows in totality. He knows everything they ever do ever. He knows everything they are perfectly. No one else could possibly give favor properly to us.

[1213]

1) Then your rationale does not follow. If some Jews were not loyal to god, then giving exclusivity to the Jews makes no sense.
2) You cannot choose your race, can you?
3) Why test the ones who are already deemed loyal?
4) Again, I'm speaking about race. Why did god grant favor to one specific race? As the OP asks....

1) Sorry to hear that it doesn't make sense to you. In any case, God made promises for the ancestors of the Jews, because they were loyal to God. But, as you could see from the Bible, if a Jew is unrighteous, the promises are not helpful for him.
2) I don't think there are different human races.
3) How are they tested?
4) Bible doesn't say God made promise for some race.

[TRANSPONDER]

Jews are not a race BTW.

"Jewish people
Ethnic group
Jews or Jewish people are an ethnoreligious group and nation originating from the Israelites and Hebrews of historical Israel and Judah. Jewish ethnicity, nationhood, and religion are strongly interrelated, as Judaism is the ethnic religion of the Jewish people,"

The rest of your response is based upon a false premise. So I will await another response.

Other examples exist, where god favors a race. When he speaks about Israelites, for example.

So Jews are not a race, thanks. I did not expect my clear answers to your questions to be challenged either way.

You can choose your ethnicity/race? I thought not... Please formulate a new argument. I'll be waiting.

That has nothing to do with the fact you are incorrect about Jews being a race. Do you concede that point or are you going to die on that hill that Jews are a race?

Sure. As you stated prior, I misspoke If this tiny and insignificant quibble makes you happy, then I'll give it to you. However, the argument doesn't change. Not in the slightest.

God places favor upon folks, who possess attributes they cannot control. Is this wise? What does a bloodline, hair color, gender, eye color, etc, matter to a supreme deity? Shouldn't all be judged upon their own merit? It almost seems like this is instead an ancient human invented concept...? What do you think?

It is absolutely a quibble and something I've noticed in religious apologetics - a desperation to score at least a point even if its' irrelevant, uninportant and nit -picky. The question of whether the Jews are or are not a race has often come up and depends on what a race is defined as, anyway.

One could do worse than ask the Jews themselves
https://www.chabad.org/library/article_ ... a-Race.htm

Fortunately there is a simple explanation for all this muddle (Blind faith isn't an explanation but ignoring the problem), but it probably isn't one the believers will like.

Tell us! Tell us, master! How should we explain this muddle?

oh....it's not important...

Is it something to do with symbolism, perhaps?

...doesn't matter....

[TRANSPONDER]

1) Then your rationale does not follow. If some Jews were not loyal to god, then giving exclusivity to the Jews makes no sense.
2) You cannot choose your race, can you?
3) Why test the ones who are already deemed loyal?
4) Again, I'm speaking about race. Why did god grant favor to one specific race? As the OP asks....

1) Sorry to hear that it doesn't make sense to you. In any case, God made promises for the ancestors of the Jews, because they were loyal to God. But, as you could see from the Bible, if a Jew is unrighteous, the promises are not helpful for him.
2) I don't think there are different human races.
3) How are they tested?
4) Bible doesn't say God made promise for some race.

Now that doesn't add up. You say that God made promises to the ancestors of the Jews, (that is, the Bible says that God made promises to the Hebrews, through their ancestor, Abraham, at least) then you say that the Bible doesn't say that God made promises to some race. How do you resolve that contradiction? Are you using the 'Jews are not a race' argument?

You are of course not going to resort to the "I didn't use those exact words" subterfugue. We get a better quality of apologist here.

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to POI in post #21]

Okay, so why not explain how the answers do not work logically?

You asked: Why would an all knowing and all loving God ever place favor towards one specific race, the Jews?

I will reword this question based on what we discussed.

Why would and all-knowing and all-loving God ever place favor toward the Jews or toward any people or person?

Why is the following answer not logical?

Because God wills it within his omniscience and lovingness.



God merits all based on who they are in total, that is who they are in God's omniscience, which is to know all their actions ever for all time.

God knows ALL Abrahams actions ever and in that omniscience and all lovingness, he chooses Abraham for part of his plan.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to POI in post #21]

Okay, so why not explain how the answers do not work logically?

You asked: Why would an all knowing and all loving God ever place favor towards one specific race, the Jews?

I will reword this question based on what we discussed.

Why would and all-knowing and all-loving God ever place favor toward the Jews or toward any people or person?

Why is the following answer not logical?

Because God wills it within his omniscience and lovingness.



God merits all based on who they are in total, that is who they are in God's omniscience, which is to know all their actions ever for all time.

God knows ALL Abrahams actions ever and in that omniscience and all lovingness, he chooses Abraham for part of his plan.

But that is a faithclaim and a faithclim not only for the OT which you already admitted is Not True here and there but a faithclaim to excuse what is a problem. I recall that you claimed you could refute (in fact I think you said 'explain') all the problems. Well of course anyone who appeals to dismissive 'God knows best' godfaith can do that.

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to POI in post #21]

Okay, so why not explain how the answers do not work logically?

You asked: Why would an all knowing and all loving God ever place favor towards one specific race, the Jews?

I will reword this question based on what we discussed.

Why would and all-knowing and all-loving God ever place favor toward the Jews or toward any people or person?

Why is the following answer not logical?

Because God wills it within his omniscience and lovingness.



God merits all based on who they are in total, that is who they are in God's omniscience, which is to know all their actions ever for all time.

God knows ALL Abrahams actions ever and in that omniscience and all lovingness, he chooses Abraham for part of his plan.

But that is a faithclaim and a faithclim not only for the OT which you already admitted is Not True here and there but a faithclaim to excuse what is a problem. I recall that you claimed you could refute (in fact I think you said 'explain') all the problems. Well of course anyone who appeals to dismissive 'God knows best' godfaith can do that.

My main goal is to show that a worldview with God existing can be internally consistent. That is about all we can really expect from anyone's worldview. No one has yet to prove their whole worldview.

It is possible to convince someone of the worldview that includes God, but it can happen. I just received an email from someone that thanked me for the reason they came to believe in God because he read some of my arguments and watched some of my videos. But it took some months before it changed his mind.

[tam]

Peace to you,

2. Because God is not actually placing favor toward Hebrews but toward one person like Abraham, and then promised Abraham that he would bless his children and does so.

I have to agree with AquinasForGod, God did not favor the Jews [as in the Israelites] because they were faithful and loyal (on the contrary the bible record presents them as a particularly stubborn and rebellious people). God made a promise to a friend, ABRAHAM because he (Abraham) was faithful and loyal.

Jesus had to be born a human being, so by necessity had to have a nationality, the descendents of Abraham were given that privilege.



JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

If you cannot see how this argument is faulty, then I do not know what to say....

Perhaps you could just say what is faulty about this argument? Because I don't see it either.

Thanks.

[1213]

...Are you using the 'Jews are not a race' argument?

As I said before, there is no human races, it means, Jews are not a race. If you disagree, please explain why do you think they are a race?