Is the Christian God omnipotent?

[otseng]

There are various definitions for omnipotence, but we'll start with this one:

Omnipotence is the quality of having unlimited power.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence

For debate:
Is the Christian God omnipotent?
What evidence/arguments supports or rejects omnipotence?

[otseng]

[Replying to post 36 by otseng]

Thanks for the suggestion. While the first one is reasonably broad, including the ability to create, they both seem to be leaning toward the control/authority aspect. Do you agree?

Therefore, omnipotence in this way of thinking is closer to the ultimate ruler. Do we then accept God as the ultimate authority?

Yes, it would be closer to the ultimate ruler, which is consistent with the agreed upon definition of omnipotence:

- omnipotence is maximal power
- no being could exceed the overall power of an omnipotent being

[otseng]

Welp, in high school I learned that matter is neither created nor destroyed.
No creation, no creator required.
No need for omnipotence.

That's not quite what the law of conservation of mass says.

From Wikipedia:

The law of conservation of mass or principle of mass conservation states that for any system closed to all transfers of matter and energy, the mass of the system must remain constant over time, as system's mass cannot change, so quantity can neither be added nor be removed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_mass

The key idea is in a closed system. It does not discount matter or energy being created from outside the closed system.

[Elijah John]

For debate:
Is the Christian God omnipotent?
What evidence/arguments supports or rejects omnipotence?

The Christian versions of God are not omnipotent

Because none of the Christian versions of God is God with a capital G.

The claim that any of them is God with a capital G is false.

To even begin to claim omnipotence for a particular version of God, it would have to be demonstrated that that particular version of God existed and that it was indeed God.

To the best of my knowledge, NO version of God has ever ben shown to exist outside the imaginations of believers.

And if all versions of God only exist in human imaginations

No version of God can be omnipotent.

No matter HOW omnipotent is defined.

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[marco]

The question is simple. The answer is a simple yes. The Christian God as described in the Christian Bible is omnipotent.

Evidence: The book that introduces and describes him says that he created the heavens and the earth and everything that exists including mankind. It would be hard to imagine anything more powerful than that.

This is correct if we are simply asking whether the character that features in the Bible has been given omnipotence by his creators. He has. A similar question would be: "Is Macbeth truly wicked?" We read the play and decide.

If, however, we are allowed to challenge the script-writers regarding their consistency, we might find flaws. If the God they've made acts in a human fashion, with apparent restrictions, then we might say he's not what we were led to believe.

[Tcg]

- no being could exceed the overall power of an omnipotent being

Wouldn't we have to say:

- no being could exceed or equal the overall power of an omnipotent being

It would be impossible to have two or more equally powerful omnipotent beings. The equal power of the other beings would limit them all to something less than omnipotent.


Tcg

[otseng]

Evidence: The book that introduces and describes him says that he created the heavens and the earth and everything that exists including mankind. It would be hard to imagine anything more powerful than that.

I'd agree with this. A creator has more authority/power/rule over the creation.

- no being could exceed the overall power of an omnipotent being

Wouldn't we have to say:

- no being could exceed or equal the overall power of an omnipotent being

It would be impossible to have two or more equally powerful omnipotent beings. The equal power of the other beings would limit them all to something less than omnipotent.

I'd agree with your modification of the definition.

[sorrento]

[Replying to liamconnor]

I don't believe the Christian god can claim to be omnipotent. If we take omnipotent to mean all-powerful, able to do anything, and I don't mean make a square circle, then being omnipotent would also mean having the power to be omniscient and omnipresent, two other powers attributed to the Christian god.
There are passages in the bible that seem to cast doubt on the biblical god having such powers, such as the inability to help Judah defeat an enemy because that enemy had chariots of iron, hardly omnipotent, and god having to ask Adam where he was which would rule out god having the ability to be omniscient and omnipresent. A being that was omniscient would have known where Adam was, and a being that was omnipresent wouldn't have to go looking for anyone.

[SallyF]

There are various definitions for omnipotence, but we'll start with this one:

Omnipotence is the quality of having unlimited power.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence

For debate:
Is the Christian God omnipotent?
What evidence/arguments supports or rejects omnipotence?

Is the Christian God omnipotent?

ANSWER: No

SUPPORT: The Christian versions of God are not God with a capital G.

Precisely on subject.

[otseng]

YHVH is described in the Bible as having the greatest power and authority.

God created all things:

[Gen 1:1 ESV] 1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

[Isa 42:5 ESV] 5 Thus says God, the LORD, who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and what comes from it, who gives breath to the people on it and spirit to those who walk in it:

[Col 1:16 ESV] 16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things were created through him and for him.

God owns and has authority over everything:

[1Ch 29:11 ESV] 11 Yours, O LORD, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the victory and the majesty, for all that is in the heavens and in the earth is yours. Yours is the kingdom, O LORD, and you are exalted as head above all.

God is called the Most High in the OT ('elyown):

[Gen 14:19 ESV] 19 And he blessed him and said, "Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Possessor of heaven and earth;

[Psa 83:18 ESV] 18 that they may know that you alone, whose name is the LORD, are the Most High over all the earth.

[Psa 97:9 ESV] 9 For you, O LORD, are most high over all the earth; you are exalted far above all gods.

God is Most High (hypsistos) in the NT:

[Luk 1:32 ESV] 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David,

In the NT, called King of kings, Lord of lords:

[1Ti 6:15 ESV] 15 which he will display at the proper time--he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords,

[Rev 19:16 ESV] 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.

Having the greatest power does not mean he can do everything. There are things God cannot do, but still it does not negate God having ultimate power and authority.

God cannot lie:

[Num 23:19 KJV] 19 God [is] not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do [it]? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

[Heb 6:18 KJV] 18 That by two immutable things, in which [it was] impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

[Diagoras]

[Replying to post 49 by otseng]

Within the confines of biblical sources, its hard to argue against that. However, perhaps we should consider a rather modified version of the Ontological Argument to explore whether this scales to reality:

We can all imagine an omnipotent being.

A being that is omnipotent only within the confines of the written word is necessarily less omnipotent than one which is also omnipotent in reality.

As omnipotence is an all or nothing quality, a less omnipotent being is equal to a non-omnipotent being.

Therefore. to prove a being is truly omnipotent, it is necessary to prove that it exists in reality.

The Christian god has not been proven to exist in reality.

Therefore we conclude that The Christian god is omnipotent is UNPROVEN.