"Slavery" in the Bible

[POI]

Allow us readers to be very careful. We must make sure we identify the proper context here, to assure against hasty and/or self-serving conclusions.

Exodus 21:2-3:

"2 "If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him." <-- Okay, this seems clear enough, if you are a purchased Hebrew, with a wife, you are both to go free in year 7.

Exodus 21:4:

"4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free." <-- Here is where things start to look sketchy for the modern-day believer. If the slave is provided with a wife, and they have kids, the wife and kids are to stay with the slave master. They are not to go free.

Exodus 21:5-6:

"5 "But if the servant declares, I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free, 6 then his master must take him before the judges.[a] He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life." <-- More uncomfortability for the Christian here. Without getting into the weeds, common sense suggests a special rule is made to trick the male Hebrew into remaining a slave for life.

Leviticus 25:44-46:

"44 "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." <-- More awkwardness for the believer, as the Bible reader clammers to find a rationale to make this passage not read the way it does.

Here is a basic definition of chattel slavery --> "Chattel slavery is full slavery in its traditional form whereby slaves are the complete property of their master, can be bought and sold by him and treated in any way that he wishes, which may include torture and other brutality, excessively bad working conditions, and sexual exploitation"

Looks like all the ingredients fit the given Bible description here, minus the torture. Wait a minute, this is covered in the rest of Exodus 21. (i.e.):

"20 "Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property." <-- So basically, since the slave is your property, beatings with impunity are acceptable. Just don't kill them.

For debate:

By applying common sense, does/did the Bible ever, and/or currently still sanction chattel slavery?

Again, by using common sense, can a believer effectively use the Bible in support of breeding chattel slaves?

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Before you answer, consider this.... Since the NT does not mention the abolition of 'slavery', and yet the Bible makes further proclamation(s) and/or addendums (in favor of retaining 'slavery',) this means the Bible is not against chattel slavery either. Further, the Christian may want to introduce the importance of the 'golden rule'. However, the specifics outweigh the generals. The specifics of the rules for engagement of slavery are outside the 'golden rule'. Otherwise, the Bible would be a one-pager. 'Slavery' is an expressed exception to the general rule. Thus, anytime a specific scenario is not invoked, yes, 'golden rule.'

[servant1]

[Replying to POI in post #397]


TY. I see God allowed Israelites-who did not have wicked hearts to have slaves. Not like one saw in the usa in the 1700,s and 1800,s. They( Israelites) applied Gods will in all matters while serving the true God and would never deal ruthlessly with fellow humans. But were just sustaining their lives in return for work, which otherwise they might not have survived.

[POI]

Why did God not tell people not to allow tyrannical governments to rule over them? Why did God not tell sinners not to give money to greedy scammers who are just taking them for their money like saps? Why did God not tell soldiers not to take prisoners of enemy nations as spoils of war, or to imprison those enemies or make slaves out of them? I don't know why God left many things unsaid, but I do believe sinners have all they need from God to do ritht and to fight for truth, justice, and right.

If the Bible remained silent about a) lifetime chattel slavery and b) slave breeding, you would have a valid point. You could then assume God is not okay with slavery. But instead, the Bible weighed in upon these two topics and endorses/condones them.

6th request... Why follow a book which does not align with your own moral compass?

[POI]

Your whole argument is based on the assumption that "love your neighbor" means only specific people, not anyone next to you. And that is a mistake, because Bible doesn't say you can arbitrarily choose to ignore the rule, if you feel so. And it is kind of funny that you accuse Christians for ignoring some rules, yet you yourself ignore one of the highest rules in the Bible, to make a point against Bible and God. Very sad.

Differing rulesets apply to differing groups. (i.e.): If we read the Bible, in context throughout, the following hierarchy exists -- God > Jesus > man > woman > Hebrew male slave > female/foreign/bred slave > livestock > inanimate object. Not all rules are created equal.

[benchwarmer]

[Replying to benchwarmer in post #396]


Never wise to assume. It says nothing about slavery.

I see, so capturing women and children is for what exactly? Would you like to be captured by an invading army and used for .... well what were they used for as 'plunder'? I think one would have to be extremely naive to think this isn't slavery. You go ahead though and ignore this inconvenient bit of text and pretend the God of the Bible doesn't condone slavery.

You do know what a slave is right? A person captured and forced to remain with the captor and/or sold to someone else, usually to perform some type of labor (though since they were capturing women, I guess they could simply rape them and send them on their way).

So which is it that this God of the Bible is condoning? Slavery? Rape? Both?

Let me guess, you think they were simply brought home, fed tea and crumpets, given riches, and sent on their way?

[POI]

TY. I see God allowed Israelites-who did not have wicked hearts to have slaves.

So basically, you have now demonstrated a total pivot. The Bible DOES endorse/condone lifetime chattel slavery and slave breeding after all. And now... on to the pivot.... You/yourself, expressed how only the wicked or evil invoke slavery. And now, we see that is not the case.

Not like one saw in the usa in the 1700,s and 1800,s.

I didn't realize there exists 'good' types of a) lifetime chattel slavery and b) slave breeding?

They( Israelites) applied Gods will in all matters while serving the true God and would never deal ruthlessly with fellow humans. But were just sustaining their lives in return for work, which otherwise they might not have survived.

The best God could instruct, is to allow for lifetime chattel slavery and slave breeding?

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Why follow a book which does not align with your own moral compass?

[servant1]

[Replying to benchwarmer in post #404]


One thing would be to save them from being plundered by other groups with wicked hearts. Even if it was slavery it wasn't the kind of slavery like done in the usa back in the 1800,s. It was more like having them work and giving them a place to live and have food in safety. But not whipping them and killing them, etc. You are seeing from what wicked heart slavery did. Israelites served the true God thus did not have wicked hearts.

[servant1]

[Replying to POI in post #405]

The Israelites were righteous= loving, kind, merciful like their God is, Unlike the wicked hearts found in many cultures that whipped, raped, killed slaves. It was more like saving those women and children from being plundered by wicked groups and providing them with work for places to live and eat in safety. So your vision of slavery in that instance is falsely reasoned on.

[benchwarmer]

[Replying to benchwarmer in post #404]


One thing would be to save them from being plundered by other groups with wicked hearts.

Wow, so you think it's fine and dandy to have your men killed and then women and children plundered as long as it's the Israelites doing it? I'm amazed you could say that with a straight face.

Even if it was slavery it wasn't the kind of slavery like done in the usa back in the 1800,s.

Correct, it was the kind of slavery done 2000 years ago in Israel when you could beat your slaves as long as they didn't die within a couple days.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

20 "Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.

What a grand time it was for slaves back then.

It was more like having them work and giving them a place to live and have food in safety. But not whipping them and killing them, etc.

See above. I think you need to go read your Bible more closely, you seem to have skipped over some parts.

You are seeing from what wicked heart slavery did. Israelites served the true God thus did not have wicked hearts.

Uh huh. They didn't have wicked hearts so Jesus showed up why again? Oh ya, to lead them from their wickedness and sin. You sure have a rosy picture of slave keepers even when there are rules right in the Bible on how far you can beat your slaves and how to procure them and keep them. Face it, apologists have to tap dance around this topic and pretend things weren't so bad.

[POI]

[Replying to POI in post #405]

The Israelites were righteous= loving, kind, merciful like their God is, Unlike the wicked hearts found in many cultures that whipped, raped, killed slaves

This response makes absolutely no sense. The Israelites fell short of God's standard. Further, the Bible would not also have to place some safeguards in place for the slave not to die during a beating. The Bible places just enough in there to keep the slave as a viable working slave -- to promote maximum profit for the slave master. What kind or warped 'love' allows for a slave master to receive immunity from punishment, just as long as the slave master does not knock out their eyes or teeth during their beatings?

It was more like saving those women and children from being plundered by wicked groups and providing them with work for places to live and eat in safety.

Wrong:

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

Or...

Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves. (Numbers 31)

Or...

When the Lord your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you. (Deut. 20)

So your vision of slavery in that instance is falsely reasoned on.

Nope. My vision is the same as the Bible's vision. It is you who is instead twisting things to avoid the obvious.

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Why follow a book which does not align with your own moral standards?

[1213]

...Not all rules are created equal.

But, Bible doesn't say the "love your neighbor" is just about the people you like the most.