Christianity's Biggest Problem Yet?

[POI]

Below is a 20 minute video. For the ones who opt not to watch, I'll start with the following question? (Which may then lead to many others, as this is a fairly new concept of thought for me)....

Why does YHWH allow for so much animal suffering? Before you Christians answer, I trust you are already aware of this guy's counter points?

[brunumb]

I guess the reason some things needed to eat meat after the flood. The water vapor layer that came down to the earth exposed something in the sun that made certain things need meat.

Did you just make that up, or do you have a reputable source for that mighty unusual claim?

Genesis 9:2--God gave them the beasts--They were already given charge of all the animals in Eden, so it meant as food. In Gods kingdom Isaiah 11:7-shows the Lion will eat straw like the bull= Gods original purpose= how it started.= no meat eating by anything.

That sounds like no meat eating by anything, except for Adam and Eve. Weird. One has to wonder why.

Never mind, even weirder was your claim that "the water vapor layer that came down to the earth exposed something in the sun that made certain things need meat". Care to elaborate on that? How about a source? How did it work that only certain animals needed meat but not others. This strange phenomenon involving the sun seems very selective.

[kjw47]

...
Jesus was an eyewitness to the flood from heaven when it occurred. He compared these last days to Noahs day. Luke 17:26

Current estimates of the life of the sun indicate it'll expend its entire store of energy before you'll ever put you an nth of truth to this claim.

Say men who do not have a clue.

Then put truth to it, and show everyone how clueless I am.

Or don't, and expose yourself as the clueless one.

You're great at making claims, but miserabe at showing you speak truth.

Psalm 37:29--The righteous will inherit the earth and reside FOREVER upon it. --the earth couldnt survive forever without the sun. Nor could the righteous. God has it all under control=forever.

[kjw47]

Are you an athiest? [sic] Jesus said Noahs [sic] flood occurred--are you calling Jesus a liar?

How did you get a denial of the flood and "calling Jesus a liar" from:

Huh? Water vapor exposing something that turns animals into carnivores? Sorry, but that's just plain goofy. This is an an example of how creationist/fantasy thinking can lead one to believe nonsensical, magical things. Science has a much better answer. Animals evolved to eat each other. No planning, no design. No cruel evil God designing a world where animals have to kill each other to survive. This is the thing of fairy tails and oddball science fiction.
If faith in a god results in this kind of thinking, that's one more reason to abandon such primitive nonsense.

Blaming 'The Fall' for all this is even nuttier. This is what taking the myths of Genesis literally can do. It inspires fantasy as reality.
No thank you.

Yes, the idea of a flood that encircled the entire world is a myth, a myth borrowed from the Sumerian culture. As a Jew Jesus was observant of the myths and stories of his culture. But the point Jesus made was that, just as in Noah's day, the destruction of the world as we know it was imminent; that people needed to heed his voice immediately because the destruction he foretold was coming very soon, while some he was talking to were still alive. [It's been 2000 years and . . . nothing, but that's another story].

But we don't call people liars just because they sincerely believe a myth. People make honest mistakes every day, but we don't accuse them of lying.

But you are missing the central point of my post, which is this utter fantasy, this unsupported nonsense about how carnivores like lions and tigers were herbivores until some magical "water vapor" somehow turned them into carnivores.
Where DID you come up with that bit of fantasy?

Jesus assures all the flood occurred Luke 17:26)--if one says the opposite, they are surely calling him a liar. Listening to those who do not know. Why? so one can remain in their sins?

[kjw47]

I guess the reason some things needed to eat meat after the flood. The water vapor layer that came down to the earth exposed something in the sun that made certain things need meat.

Did you just make that up, or do you have a reputable source for that mighty unusual claim?

Genesis 9:2--God gave them the beasts--They were already given charge of all the animals in Eden, so it meant as food. In Gods kingdom Isaiah 11:7-shows the Lion will eat straw like the bull= Gods original purpose= how it started.= no meat eating by anything.

That sounds like no meat eating by anything, except for Adam and Eve. Weird. One has to wonder why.

Never mind, even weirder was your claim that "the water vapor layer that came down to the earth exposed something in the sun that made certain things need meat". Care to elaborate on that? How about a source? How did it work that only certain animals needed meat but not others. This strange phenomenon involving the sun seems very selective.

I couldnt find info on it. I was taught it back the 60,s. I believe it is truth.

[JoeyKnothead]

...
Jesus was an eyewitness to the flood from heaven when it occurred. He compared these last days to Noahs day. Luke 17:26

Current estimates of the life of the sun indicate it'll expend its entire store of energy before you'll ever put you an nth of truth to this claim.

Say men who do not have a clue.

Then put truth to it, and show everyone how clueless I am.

Or don't, and expose yourself as the clueless one.

You're great at making claims, but miserabe at showing you speak truth.

Psalm 37:29--The righteous will inherit the earth and reside FOREVER upon it. --the earth couldnt survive forever without the sun. Nor could the righteous. God has it all under control=forever.

You must cower in fear knowing there's cows jumping over the moon.

You're just another preacher who thinks quoting the bible proves the Bible is correct.

The liar lies and the preacher preaches.

[TRANSPONDER]

Are you an athiest? [sic] Jesus said Noahs [sic] flood occurred--are you calling Jesus a liar?

How did you get a denial of the flood and "calling Jesus a liar" from:

Huh? Water vapor exposing something that turns animals into carnivores? Sorry, but that's just plain goofy. This is an an example of how creationist/fantasy thinking can lead one to believe nonsensical, magical things. Science has a much better answer. Animals evolved to eat each other. No planning, no design. No cruel evil God designing a world where animals have to kill each other to survive. This is the thing of fairy tails and oddball science fiction.
If faith in a god results in this kind of thinking, that's one more reason to abandon such primitive nonsense.

Blaming 'The Fall' for all this is even nuttier. This is what taking the myths of Genesis literally can do. It inspires fantasy as reality.
No thank you.

Yes, the idea of a flood that encircled the entire world is a myth, a myth borrowed from the Sumerian culture. As a Jew Jesus was observant of the myths and stories of his culture. But the point Jesus made was that, just as in Noah's day, the destruction of the world as we know it was imminent; that people needed to heed his voice immediately because the destruction he foretold was coming very soon, while some he was talking to were still alive. [It's been 2000 years and . . . nothing, but that's another story].

But we don't call people liars just because they sincerely believe a myth. People make honest mistakes every day, but we don't accuse them of lying.

But you are missing the central point of my post, which is this utter fantasy, this unsupported nonsense about how carnivores like lions and tigers were herbivores until some magical "water vapor" somehow turned them into carnivores.
Where DID you come up with that bit of fantasy?

Jesus assures all the flood occurred Luke 17:26)--if one says the opposite, they are surely calling him a liar. Listening to those who do not know. Why? so one can remain in their sins?

I can't get over how much preaching we get here "I believe this", "The Bible says that", "If the atheists don't accept it, they are calling Jesus a liar". Only the last one is even a debating -point and I've already debated it out; God clearly kept some knowledge from Jesus, so he may have believed the Flood happened, or he knew it didn't, but used it as a teaching -point. Atheists can do excuses, too.

[Diogenes]

Never mind, even weirder was your claim that "the water vapor layer that came down to the earth exposed something in the sun that made certain things need meat". Care to elaborate on that? How about a source? How did it work that only certain animals needed meat but not others. This strange phenomenon involving the sun seems very selective.

I couldnt find info on it. I was taught it back the 60,s. I believe it is truth.

[emphasis applied]
That sentence is representative of the level of analysis and critical thinking in kjw47's posts, paraphrasing,
"I have no information and cannot support my claims, but I was taught it 60 years ago so I believe it is true."
This is a confession one cannot support one's claim.

It is also long past time to remind kjw47 they are not in the 'Holy Huddle.' This is 'Christianity and Apologetics.' The owner of the forum has published guidelines for this subforum:

Guidelines for the C&A subforum

Post #1

Post by otseng » Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:53 am
1. We are debating Christianity, pro and con, for and against, not debating with the assumption that Christianity is true. Please realize that people on the forum are from all worldview backgrounds and do not necessarily share the same assumptions.

2. Avoid using the Bible as the sole source to prove that Christianity is true.

3. For factual claims like the existence of individuals, places, and events, the Bible can be considered as providing evidence, but not necessarily conclusive evidence.

4. Unsupported Bible quotations are to be considered as no more authoritative than unsupported quotations from any other book.

5. Please avoid "preaching" and using the forum as simply a way to blast people with the gospel message. This is a debating forum, not a convenient place to overtly proselytize.

6. Realize that most participants here are strong debaters and have a vast knowledge of Christianity and the Bible (including non-theists). If you make any claims, be ready to support your claims with evidence if asked. Non-Biblical evidence would go far among non-theists.

7. For debates purely on theology with the assumption that the Bible is an authoritative source, please consider posting in the Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma subforum.


If you choose to debate in this sub-forum you are REQUIRED to honor the Guidelines. Notice specifically that the Bible can be used ONLY to show what the bible says and what Christianity says. It cannot be used to prove that a statement or story is true.

[emphasis applied]

[JoeyKnothead]

Jesus assures all the flood occurred Luke 17:26)--if one says the opposite, they are surely calling him a liar.
...

Jesus ain't the one I think's doing the lying here.

[POI]

There werent any witnesses to the events you describe, except in heaven. The bible doesnt mention what you show.

The Bible does not need to mention it. If you look at the link, you will see that it is clear dinosaurs ate each other. Were these actions not considered 'evil' until after the "fall of man"?

[Diogenes]

There werent any witnesses to the events you describe, except in heaven. The bible doesnt mention what you show.

The Bible does not need to mention it. If you look at the link, you will see that it is clear dinosaurs ate each other. Were these actions not considered 'evil' until after the "fall of man"?

The 'Fall of Man' baloney is the "go to" simplistic excuse many apologists make for all manner of evil, disease, birth defects. Their "God" supposedly created everything in the universe, but they are loathe to blame 'Him' for anything. Everything is man's fault, no matter how many laws of physics, biology, history and logic one has to discard in order to sustain the myth.