Below is a 20 minute video. For the ones who opt not to watch, I'll start with the following question? (Which may then lead to many others, as this is a fairly new concept of thought for me)....
Why does YHWH allow for so much animal suffering? Before you Christians answer, I trust you are already aware of this guy's counter points?
Christianity's Biggest Problem Yet?
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Christianity's Biggest Problem Yet?
Post #1In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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Re: Christianity's Biggest Problem Yet?
Post #481




Did you just make that up, or do you have a reputable source for that mighty unusual claim?
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
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Re: Christianity's Biggest Problem Yet?
Post #482Current estimates of the life of the sun indicate it'll expend its entire store of energy before you'll ever put you an nth of truth to this claim.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
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Re: Christianity's Biggest Problem Yet?
Post #483Delete empty comment
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
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Re: Christianity's Biggest Problem Yet?
Post #484kjw47 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:18 pmDiogenes wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 2:30 pm The question here is about the horrible cruelty suffered by animals. Carnivores evolved to eat only meat. The only way to get meat is to kill an animal or let something else kill it. Evolution explains this perfectly, but if you claim a 'god' created this system of unspeakable suffering and pain, then you have to give your god credit for cruelty.I guess the reason some things needed to eat meat after the flood. The water vapor layer that came down to the earth exposed something in the sun that made certain things need meat.
Huh? Water vapor exposing something that turns animals into carnivores?Sorry, but that's just plain goofy. This is an an example of how creationist/fantasy thinking can lead one to believe nonsensical, magical things. Science has a much better answer. Animals evolved to eat each other. No planning, no design. No cruel evil God designing a world where animals have to kill each other to survive. This is the thing of fairy tails and oddball science fiction.
If faith in a god results in this kind of thinking, that's one more reason to abandon such primitive nonsense.
Blaming 'The Fall' for all this is even nuttier. This is what taking the myths of Genesis literally can do. It inspires fantasy as reality.
No thank you.
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Re: Christianity's Biggest Problem Yet?
Post #485POI wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:40 pmThe link I sent, you, about 5 posts ago. It provides clear evidence dinosaurs attacked/ate each other. Was this not considered 'evil' before the 'fall of man'?kjw47 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:24 pmPOI wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 3:24 pmHeck, we do not even need to go this far. Were animals, reptiles, other, who attacked each other, something that was apparently not considered 'evil' until AFTER the 'fall of man'?kjw47 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 2:09 pmPOI wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 7:50 pmNow we might be starting to get somewhere.... Are you saying dinosaurs did not suffer?kjw47 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 7:43 pmPOI wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 4:20 pmOkay? But we now agree suffering happened before the "fall of man". This makes no sense. Why would God allow suffering here?kjw47 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:16 pm
The bible doesnt say.
Who said dinosaurs suffered?
No one knows
Who said they attacked each other?
There werent any witnesses to the events you describe, except in heaven. The bible doesnt mention what you show.
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Re: Christianity's Biggest Problem Yet?
Post #486Genesis 9:2--God gave them the beasts--They were already given charge of all the animals in Eden, so it meant as food. In Gods kingdom Isaiah 11:7-shows the Lion will eat straw like the bull= Gods original purpose= how it started.= no meat eating by anything.
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Re: Christianity's Biggest Problem Yet?
Post #487JoeyKnothead wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:47 amCurrent estimates of the life of the sun indicate it'll expend its entire store of energy before you'll ever put you an nth of truth to this claim.
Say men who do not have a clue.
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Re: Christianity's Biggest Problem Yet?
Post #488Diogenes wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:51 amkjw47 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:18 pmDiogenes wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 2:30 pm The question here is about the horrible cruelty suffered by animals. Carnivores evolved to eat only meat. The only way to get meat is to kill an animal or let something else kill it. Evolution explains this perfectly, but if you claim a 'god' created this system of unspeakable suffering and pain, then you have to give your god credit for cruelty.I guess the reason some things needed to eat meat after the flood. The water vapor layer that came down to the earth exposed something in the sun that made certain things need meat.
Huh? Water vapor exposing something that turns animals into carnivores?Sorry, but that's just plain goofy. This is an an example of how creationist/fantasy thinking can lead one to believe nonsensical, magical things. Science has a much better answer. Animals evolved to eat each other. No planning, no design. No cruel evil God designing a world where animals have to kill each other to survive. This is the thing of fairy tails and oddball science fiction.
If faith in a god results in this kind of thinking, that's one more reason to abandon such primitive nonsense.
Blaming 'The Fall' for all this is even nuttier. This is what taking the myths of Genesis literally can do. It inspires fantasy as reality.
No thank you.
Are you an athiest? Jesus said Noahs flood occurred--are you calling Jesus a liar?
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Re: Christianity's Biggest Problem Yet?
Post #489Then put truth to it, and show everyone how clueless I am.kjw47 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:48 pmSay men who do not have a clue.JoeyKnothead wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:47 amCurrent estimates of the life of the sun indicate it'll expend its entire store of energy before you'll ever put you an nth of truth to this claim.
Or don't, and expose yourself as the clueless one.
You're great at making claims, but miserabe at showing you speak truth.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
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Re: Christianity's Biggest Problem Yet?
Post #490How did you get a denial of the flood and "calling Jesus a liar" from:
Huh? Water vapor exposing something that turns animals into carnivores?Sorry, but that's just plain goofy. This is an an example of how creationist/fantasy thinking can lead one to believe nonsensical, magical things. Science has a much better answer. Animals evolved to eat each other. No planning, no design. No cruel evil God designing a world where animals have to kill each other to survive. This is the thing of fairy tails and oddball science fiction.
If faith in a god results in this kind of thinking, that's one more reason to abandon such primitive nonsense.
Blaming 'The Fall' for all this is even nuttier. This is what taking the myths of Genesis literally can do. It inspires fantasy as reality.
No thank you.
Yes, the idea of a flood that encircled the entire world is a myth, a myth borrowed from the Sumerian culture. As a Jew Jesus was observant of the myths and stories of his culture. But the point Jesus made was that, just as in Noah's day, the destruction of the world as we know it was imminent; that people needed to heed his voice immediately because the destruction he foretold was coming very soon, while some he was talking to were still alive. [It's been 2000 years and . . . nothing, but that's another story].
But we don't call people liars just because they sincerely believe a myth. People make honest mistakes every day, but we don't accuse them of lying.
But you are missing the central point of my post, which is this utter fantasy, this unsupported nonsense about how carnivores like lions and tigers were herbivores until some magical "water vapor" somehow turned them into carnivores.

Where DID you come up with that bit of fantasy?

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“Before You Embark On A Journey Of Revenge, Dig Two Graves”
— Confucius
“Before You Embark On A Journey Of Revenge, Dig Two Graves”
— Confucius