If God was the Devil, How Would You Know?

[Purple Knight]

Questions for debate: If the more powerful being were the evil, and the rebel the good, how would you know this? What clues would you look for? Would it even be possible to glean such knowledge in a universe where the evil being is omnipotent and controls all? Is it a nonsense question because a being that was truly all-powerful would have every authority and power to set up the rules for good and evil and simply favour itself?

[brunumb]

The one who can force you to pay taxes owns you similarly as slave was owned.

Not even close. Your desperation is showing. Paying taxes and obeying the laws is not the same as owning a person as property.

[2ndRateMind]

Ho hum. I suggest you read up on classical history, and see if you still think the Roman Empire to have been a liberal democracy.

Why? I only wrote "democracy". You brought "liberal" into it...

A vital aspect of a democracy is that people should be free to vote however they want. That's the liberal part of the description.

Are you suggesting that "Liberal Democracy" is the same thing as "The Fathers Kingdom"?

Not at all. The thinking is that the Kingdom of Heaven is a benign monarchic dictatorship. In other words, a happy theocracy.

For it does appear that Jesus was being very specific on that.

Best wishes, 2RM

What does that mean?

Respect. I do not know your circumstances, which may have been particularly harsh, and left you little time for education. Or maybe you just fell into bad company, through no fault of your own. Or maybe you have some other reason to believe what you believe.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[William]

Ho hum. I suggest you read up on classical history, and see if you still think the Roman Empire to have been a liberal democracy.

Why? I only wrote "democracy". You brought "liberal" into it...

A vital aspect of a democracy is that people should be free to vote however they want. That's the liberal part of the description.

Are you suggesting that "Liberal Democracy" is the same thing as "The Fathers Kingdom"?

Not at all. The thinking is that the Kingdom of Heaven is a benign monarchic dictatorship. In other words, a happy theocracy.

For it does appear that Jesus was being very specific on that.

Best wishes, 2RM

What does that mean?

Respect. I do not know your circumstances, which may have been particularly harsh, and left you little time for education. Oy maybe you just fell into bad company, through no fault of your own. Or maybe you have some other reason to believe what you believe.

Best wishes, 2RM.

I do not believe anything. I am agnostic when it comes to belief.

But your explanation reveals that your "wishes" are condescending and therefore purpose designed to be of no value to me.

[2ndRateMind]

Ho hum. I suggest you read up on classical history, and see if you still think the Roman Empire to have been a liberal democracy.

Why? I only wrote "democracy". You brought "liberal" into it...

A vital aspect of a democracy is that people should be free to vote however they want. That's the liberal part of the description.

Are you suggesting that "Liberal Democracy" is the same thing as "The Fathers Kingdom"?

Not at all. The thinking is that the Kingdom of Heaven is a benign monarchic dictatorship. In other words, a happy theocracy.

For it does appear that Jesus was being very specific on that.

Best wishes, 2RM

What does that mean?

Respect. I do not know your circumstances, which may have been particularly harsh, and left you little time for education. Oy maybe you just fell into bad company, through no fault of your own. Or maybe you have some other reason to believe what you believe.

Best wishes, 2RM.

I do not believe anything. I am agnostic when it comes to belief.

But your explanation reveals that your "wishes" are condescending and therefore purpose designed to be of no value to me.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I genuinely want the best for you and yours. But you won't find that through agnosticism, which tends to believe there is insufficient objective evidence for a faith. But if there was, it wouldn't be faith anymore, but subjection to an omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient entity whether one wanted a relationship with Him or not. That would be slavery.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[William]

Ho hum. I suggest you read up on classical history, and see if you still think the Roman Empire to have been a liberal democracy.

Why? I only wrote "democracy". You brought "liberal" into it...

A vital aspect of a democracy is that people should be free to vote however they want. That's the liberal part of the description.

Are you suggesting that "Liberal Democracy" is the same thing as "The Fathers Kingdom"?

Not at all. The thinking is that the Kingdom of Heaven is a benign monarchic dictatorship. In other words, a happy theocracy.

For it does appear that Jesus was being very specific on that.

Best wishes, 2RM

What does that mean?

Respect. I do not know your circumstances, which may have been particularly harsh, and left you little time for education. Oy maybe you just fell into bad company, through no fault of your own. Or maybe you have some other reason to believe what you believe.

Best wishes, 2RM.

I do not believe anything. I am agnostic when it comes to belief.

But your explanation reveals that your "wishes" are condescending and therefore purpose designed to be of no value to me.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

I suggest you make a genuine attempt to change the way you express your opinions of others in general, if you want them to see value in what you write...

[1213]

The one who can force you to pay taxes owns you similarly as slave was owned.

Not even close. Your desperation is showing. Paying taxes and obeying the laws is not the same as owning a person as property.

What is the difference in practice? In both cases person works for someone else and is basically forced to do so (In Bible, some did it voluntarily, which makes it little different).

[DieAmartyr]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #1] Well because I wouldn't be here! The devil can't create people on his own. Sure he helped create nephilim but people already existed for that to happen. The devil wants to take us all to hell so we cannot inherit what he feels should belong to him. He thinks we are peons, lowly stupid little creatures and when he was told to bow before Adam, Gods creation he refused. Man was set a little above the angels in the beginning but when Adam sinned, it put us below them. Satan is not the opposite of God. Satan was created by God. He was the first being God created and He made him the smartest, most beautiful creation in all of heaven. Satan is very powerful and he has had over 5000 years of practicing what puts us in hell. We have to be very careful because what man considers successful and important God finds trivial and stupid. Things that seem like no big deal to us are of great importance to God. A very successful Atheist had a near death experience where he was taken for his life review with Jesus and two elders and they watched his life. During the parts where he made a lot of money and bought homes and cars they had no reaction. Times where he showed compassion they clapped and rejoiced. From what he could tell, the most successful point of his life from Gods perspective was when his sister laid on her bed crying because her boyfriend dumped her and he sat next to her on her bed with his hand on her shoulder. He didnt speak. He just sat there and the elders rejoiced and wanted to see it again. He was headed for hell if he didnt change his ways and he woke up and went and became a pastor. His name is Howard Storm. Look him up. His story is powerful. We must be careful not to go to hell. At all costs. They say the fear in hell is maddening. Imagine there is a serial killer in your home and he has murdered your family and you are hiding in thr closet and he is walking around looking for you. He is standing in front of the closet about to open the door where you are. Multiply that fear by 1000. It never ceases. There is no rest. There is no love. No one cares about you in hell. No one cares who you were on earth or how much money you had. No one cares that you were beautiful or had nice things or wore fancy clothes. You are naked, and tortured and eaten only to have your body grow back and be tortured again. Hell is for those who do not care about God and think their lives are so important. Your life and you are nothing without God.

[DrNoGods]

[Replying to DieAmartyr in post #68]

Hell is for those who do not care about God and think their lives are so important. Your life and you are nothing without God.

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[brunumb]

He was headed for hell if he didnt change his ways and he woke up and went and became a pastor. His name is Howard Storm. Look him up. His story is powerful.

And undoubtedly as fictional as the rest of your story. Please show that any of it is demonstrably true.

[Tcg]

The one who can force you to pay taxes owns you similarly as slave was owned.

Not even close. Your desperation is showing. Paying taxes and obeying the laws is not the same as owning a person as property.

What is the difference in practice? In both cases person works for someone else and is basically forced to do so (In Bible, some did it voluntarily, which makes it little different).

A non-slave is legally free to work for whomever they want. They can even choose to work for themselves or not work at all. A slave must work as their master commands and aren't legally free to do anything but what their master demands.

To state that paying taxes is equivalent to slavery reveals a misunderstanding of the implications of being owned by another.


Tcg