There are various christian groups like catholics,baptists,pentecostals etc.Each group views all other group as following the religion incorrectly.For example many catholics worship the idols of jesus and mary,whiole protestants call this as going against bible.Whereas catholics say their version is the true form of christianity.
So each group thinks it follows true christianity.Many groups like unitary christians,mormons,are not even considered as christians by many other group.So my questions for these groups are as follows
1.Please identify the group you belong to and say which other groups go to heavena dn which goes to hell.For example are unitary christians headed to heaven?Are mormons headed to heaven? etc.Or is it like that membership to any christian group is sufficent to reach heaven?also explain your answer please.
Catholics,baptists,pentecostals..who heads where?
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worship-your-mother-she-i
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unprofitable servant
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who heads where?
Post #2I have no denominational affiliation and I do not call myself a christian, so I don't know if you want my view or not.
I do believe in Jesus Christ and have my hope in Him.
So does this qualify me to be able to answer or are you just looking for the organized people?
I do believe in Jesus Christ and have my hope in Him.
So does this qualify me to be able to answer or are you just looking for the organized people?
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worship-your-mother-she-i
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Re: who heads where?
Post #3you can answer,sure.Others who belong to catholic,baptist churches etc can also answer.unprofitable servant wrote:I have no denominational affiliation and I do not call myself a christian, so I don't know if you want my view or not.
I do believe in Jesus Christ and have my hope in Him.
So does this qualify me to be able to answer or are you just looking for the organized people?
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worship-your-mother-she-i
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Post #5
“From the very earliest days of the church there has been a tradition whereby images of our Lord, His holy mother, and of the saints are displayed in churches for the veneration of the faithful…this practice of placing sacred images in churches so that they can be venerated by the faithful is to be maintained. (Vatican II)fidelis wrote:tut tut, now where did you hear that? Someone has been telling you porkies. Catholics DO NOT worship idols of Mary and Jesus.For example many catholics worship the idols of jesus and mary,
“The images of Christ and the Virgin Mother of God, and of the other saints, are to be had and to be kept, especially in Churches, and due honor and veneration are to be given them.” Council of Trent, 25th sess. (1563).
what does this mean?
source:http://www.letusreason.org/RC2.htm
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unprofitable servant
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who goes to heaven?
Post #6From the scriptures I don't believe anyone is going to heaven. Why?
Because the doctrine of going to heaven is an interpetation of what theologians think the scripture says. When we look at what the scriptures say in truth and not by interpeting we will not see Jesus saying anything about anyone going to heaven.
Let's look at one scripture I have heard the theologians use as part of their going to heaven sermons.
Luke 16:19-31
19There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Now they say verse 22
22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
means that the beggar was carried to heaven by the angels. But the scripture does not say that, but simply states that he was carried to the bosom of Abraham.
If we believe the scriptures Jesus told us when this time would be He said
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Notice Jesus did not say that the elect shall be gathered out of heaven but "from one end of heaven to the other"
I'd like to ask you a question: Do you think that we are worthy enough to go to heaven and dwell were the MAJESTY ON HIGH dwells?
We still seperate ourselves based on denominations race material wealth or the lack thereof and many other things. How are we righteous enough to abtain to that place where Jesus was blessed to go when we have not put off the trappings of this old world?
Because the doctrine of going to heaven is an interpetation of what theologians think the scripture says. When we look at what the scriptures say in truth and not by interpeting we will not see Jesus saying anything about anyone going to heaven.
Let's look at one scripture I have heard the theologians use as part of their going to heaven sermons.
Luke 16:19-31
19There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Now they say verse 22
22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
means that the beggar was carried to heaven by the angels. But the scripture does not say that, but simply states that he was carried to the bosom of Abraham.
If we believe the scriptures Jesus told us when this time would be He said
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Notice Jesus did not say that the elect shall be gathered out of heaven but "from one end of heaven to the other"
I'd like to ask you a question: Do you think that we are worthy enough to go to heaven and dwell were the MAJESTY ON HIGH dwells?
We still seperate ourselves based on denominations race material wealth or the lack thereof and many other things. How are we righteous enough to abtain to that place where Jesus was blessed to go when we have not put off the trappings of this old world?
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worship-your-mother-she-i
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Post #7
If god is there,he is father,we are his children.Whats wrong in father and son living at the same place?unprofitable servant wrote:I'd like to ask you a question: Do you think that we are worthy enough to go to heaven and dwell were the MAJESTY ON HIGH dwells?
We still seperate ourselves based on denominations race material wealth or the lack thereof and many other things. How are we righteous enough to abtain to that place where Jesus was blessed to go when we have not put off the trappings of this old world?
I also dont agree that none will go to heaven.Then do u mean that all of us head to hell?Maybe god can put us in some place which isnt heaven or hell.Maybe a second garden of eden.
Post #8
Catholics don't worship idols. I'm sure you have pictures of your family and friends. Do you worship them? No. You keep them there as a reminder of them. Catholics have statues in Churches as reminders of our founder, Jesus Christ, Mary and the Saints.
God tells us to make images of things which come from Him but make no images that are against Him.
For exapmle:
"You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth."
Exodus 20:4
GOD clearly said make no images.
"And the Lord said to Moses, "Make a seraph (snake) and mount it on a
pole, and if anyone who has been bitten looks at it he will recover."
Moses accordingly made a bronze serpent and mounted it on a pole, and whenever anyone who had been bitten by a serpent looked at the bronze
serpent, he recovered."
Numbers 21:8-9
GOD clearly said make an image.
When Aaron made a golen calf: "Thus the Lord smote the people for having had Aaron make the calf for them."
Exodus 32:35
It is clear that GOD again said make no idols.
"Make two cherubim of beaten gold for the two ends of the propitiatory,
fasten them so that one cherub springs direct from each end."
Exodus 25:17-18
Another clear message directly from GOD to make idols. Did you notice that these gold cherubim were to be mounted atop the most sacred object on earth, the Ark of the Covenant?
Catholics, when praying before a statue are not petitioning to the statue, but to the person of whom it represents.
I hope that clears up this little misunderstanding
God tells us to make images of things which come from Him but make no images that are against Him.
For exapmle:
"You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth."
Exodus 20:4
GOD clearly said make no images.
"And the Lord said to Moses, "Make a seraph (snake) and mount it on a
pole, and if anyone who has been bitten looks at it he will recover."
Moses accordingly made a bronze serpent and mounted it on a pole, and whenever anyone who had been bitten by a serpent looked at the bronze
serpent, he recovered."
Numbers 21:8-9
GOD clearly said make an image.
When Aaron made a golen calf: "Thus the Lord smote the people for having had Aaron make the calf for them."
Exodus 32:35
It is clear that GOD again said make no idols.
"Make two cherubim of beaten gold for the two ends of the propitiatory,
fasten them so that one cherub springs direct from each end."
Exodus 25:17-18
Another clear message directly from GOD to make idols. Did you notice that these gold cherubim were to be mounted atop the most sacred object on earth, the Ark of the Covenant?
Catholics, when praying before a statue are not petitioning to the statue, but to the person of whom it represents.
I hope that clears up this little misunderstanding
Post #9
1. God doesn't send us anywhere, we condemn ourselves to Hell. If we go to Hell, it isn't because God wants us to go there for being a bad person, it is because we have turned away from God.Maybe god can put us in some place which isnt heaven or hell
2. God should be spelled with a capital 'G'
Post #10
Scripture says otherwise.1. God doesn't send us anywhere, we condemn ourselves to Hell. If we go to Hell, it isn't because God wants us to go there for being a bad person, it is because we have turned away from God.
Proverbs 16:4
2 Thessalonians 2:11 to 2:12The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
John 12:40God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
That they all might be damned.
He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
Only at the start of a sentence, god was used properly in that instance.God should be spelled with a capital 'G'
