Can we find evidence of a good Jehovah?

marco · Post by **marco** » Tue May 21, 2019 3:54 am

God's anger fills the pages of the OT and his rage destroys many. Yet some believe Jehovah was gentle, merciful... a thoroughly just and good God. We could WISH he was but if we read his biograpjical details we woud find it very hard to conclude he's a nice being.

It is remarkably simple to find evidence of nastiness, savagery and spite. But can we redeem God in any way, and find convincing evidence that he's good and merciful FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT?

marco · Post by **marco** » Tue May 21, 2019 4:04 am

marco wrote:
But can we redeem God in any way, and find convincing evidence that he's good and merciful FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT?

Some would instance God's kindness to his people, leading them out of the Land of Egypt. But we are told:

"And the LORD'S anger was kindled against Israel, and he made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until all the generation, that had done evil in the sight of the LORD, was consumed."
NUMBERS 32:13 KJV

Forty years is a mighty long time! Perhaps the poor Israelites exchanged one captivity for a worse one, thanks be to God.

Elijah John · Post by **Elijah John** » Tue May 21, 2019 11:27 am

marco wrote:
marco wrote:
But can we redeem God in any way, and find convincing evidence that he's good and merciful FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT?
Some would instance God's kindness to his people, leading them out of the Land of Egypt. But we are told:

"And the LORD'S anger was kindled against Israel, and he made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until all the generation, that had done evil in the sight of the LORD, was consumed."
NUMBERS 32:13 KJV

Forty years is a mighty long time! Perhaps the poor Israelites exchanged one captivity for a worse one, thanks be to God.

The "done evil in the sight of the LORD" was the sin of idolatry in declaring their new god to be the golden calf. This despite the miraculous deliverance that they had just experienced first hand, according to the narrative. Idolatry is a very serious sin, did they repent? I don't recall.

But there were future times when the Kingdoms had fallen into idolatry and then repented at the behest of the Prophets, and God forgave.

2ndRateMind · Post by **2ndRateMind** » Tue May 21, 2019 11:55 am

The truth is, we get the God (or rather, concept of God) we deserve. If the ancient Jews had a nasty, savage and spiteful (idea of) God, presumably that was because they were a nasty, savage, and spiteful people. No wonder we needed Jesus!

Best wishes, 2RM.

Post by **Tcg** » Tue May 21, 2019 12:35 pm

marco wrote: God's anger fills the pages of the OT and his rage destroys many. Yet some believe Jehovah was gentle, merciful... a thoroughly just and good God. We could WISH he was but if we read his biograpjical details we woud find it very hard to conclude he's a nice being.

It is remarkably simple to find evidence of nastiness, savagery and spite. But can we redeem God in any way, and find convincing evidence that he's good and merciful FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT?

Job's first ten children certainly couldn't. The next set of ten might view God differently. Of course when the story of Job is told, we are to marvel how merciful God was to Job. We are to ignore the fact that his first ten children never got to enjoy God's blessing. Presumably, the second set were able to ignore the absence of the seven brothers and thee sisters they never had the chance to meet.

This story contains the key for those who are able to consider God from the Old Testament to be good and merciful. He didn't kill me over an argument with Satan, so he's fine.

What would Job say if we could ask him if he misses his first ten children?

"SHHHH!!!!"

Tcg

marco · Post by **marco** » Tue May 21, 2019 2:50 pm

2ndRateMind wrote: The truth is, we get the God (or rather, concept of God) we deserve. If the ancient Jews had a nasty, savage and spiteful (idea of) God, presumably that was because they were a nasty, savage, and spiteful people. No wonder we needed Jesus!

It would indeed be wonderful If people got the God they deserved; if poor hungry children got a provident God; if children of the Holocaust got a listening God. In life bad very often thrives and the poor get poorer.

I don't think the Israelites were ever captives in Egypt and the being portrayed as consorting with these lost humans is something fictional. So yes, they got the God they designed for themselves, though why modern folk should want him remains a mystery. Go well.

marco · Post by **marco** » Tue May 21, 2019 2:58 pm

Tcg wrote:
What would Job say if we could ask him if he misses his first ten children?

The usual reply, in mitigation, is that we do not know the full story. The original children were savages, murderers and rapists of the worst kind. The replacement set were angelic and helped Job a lot, so he never regretted losing his unruly brood. But of course we are meant to deduce this.

When God asked Abraham to murder his son we are not told that God winked at Abraham, who winked back, and Abraham winked at Isaac and Isaac winked back and giggled when he was tied up, for everyone knew it was all a joke. Again we can deduce this.

The God we don't see is the good one. Jesus was right when he said man had never seen any wonders that God has prepared for us..... because there are none.

Post by **Tcg** » Tue May 21, 2019 4:02 pm

[Replying to post 6 by marco]

Of course. It can't be Jehovah's fault when he acts like a barbarian or else he couldn't be considered merciful and just. Given that he is merciful and just, it can't be his fault when he acts like a barbarian.

Tcg

SallyF · Post by **SallyF** » Tue May 21, 2019 4:08 pm

Jehovah abounds in goodness and mercy !

At least according to the propagandists of this mythological deity in at least one memorable spot in the propaganda.

This glorious mythological god is not only human in nature, it is anthropomorphic in physiology. It has a face, a hand and "back parts".

19And he (Jehovah) said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of Jehovah before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy. 20And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. 21And Jehovah said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock: 22And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: 23And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

How very thoughtful of the god to keep his face hidden and show the possibly fictional Moses his "back parts".

(Okay, the propagandists did have their imaginary god tell the possibly fictional Moses to ethnically cleanse the Promised Land in true Islamic State style earlier in the chapter, but the "back parts" bit is quite soft and lovely. And we ARE dealing with the "Word of God" right here aren't we ?)

1213 · Post by **1213** » Wed May 22, 2019 12:43 pm

marco wrote: God's anger fills the pages of the OT and his rage destroys many. ...

He destroys those who are evil and make life suffering. I really dont see why that is bad. Perhaps you could explain why it would be good, if evil people would live forever?

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Can we find evidence of a good Jehovah?

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Re: Can we find evidence of a good Jehovah?