Can we find evidence of a good Jehovah?

[marco]

God's anger fills the pages of the OT and his rage destroys many. Yet some believe Jehovah was gentle, merciful... a thoroughly just and good God. We could WISH he was but if we read his biograpjical details we woud find it very hard to conclude he's a nice being.


It is remarkably simple to find evidence of nastiness, savagery and spite. But can we redeem God in any way, and find convincing evidence that he's good and merciful FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT?

[2ndRateMind]

Let us with a gladsome mind, see if OT Yahweh's kind. We have become side-tracked from my OP.

No, I don't think so. If God is infinitely, perfectly moral, as I propose, and the OT is not, then the fault does not lie in God, but with the authors of the OT. It is anachronistic to think that we should judge God by today's ethical standards, and then use recorded bronze age mores in His defense as the basis to reach that judgment about Him. And particularly so since the approach rules out the transcending relevance of Jesus' teachings, and the paradigm shift He wrought, concerning His loving Father of all humanity. For His mercies ay endure, ever faithful, ever sure.

That's fine. I shall take your comment to mean there are no redeeming features of Yahweh in the OT.

By all means take it that way if you want, but it was not what I said. My position is that rather, I consider the whole question somewhat irrelevant to God's perfect nature.

The stuff about Jesus reinventing Yahweh and making him nice, while STILL upholding Scripture, is optimistic fantasy. Calling the devil dad changeth not the devil.

So, I am not saying Jesus 'reinvented Yahweh and made Him nice', more that God always was infinitely good, but that prior to the NT the Jews had not made sufficient moral progress to appreciate the extent of that goodness.

One can be anachronistic about judging ancient people by modern standards, but not God, "who never changes." If you discard Yahweh, as you seem to be doing, and we are in the territory of a bright new deity full of love and opposed to tsunamis and mosquitoes, that is a tale for another thread. There are many who believe in Jehovah, so perhaps he MAY still have some defenders here. But it's a tough task to defend him.

I agree. My attitude, however, is not to seek to defend the indefensible, but to promote a concept of God that develops as humanity makes religious, theological, philosophical and social progress. It's a becoming humility thing.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[marco]

So, I am not saying Jesus 'reinvented Yahweh and made Him nice', more that God always was infinitely good, but that prior to the NT the Jews had not made sufficient moral progress to appreciate the extent of that goodness.

Your God may have eternal niceness; Yahweh doesn't, and it is Yahweh's personality that is under scrutiny. I accept that Jesus is accorded the power to work wonders, but making Yahweh into something sublimely good is a miracle too far.

I agree. My attitude, however, is not to seek to defend the indefensible, but to promote a concept of God that develops as humanity makes religious, theological, philosophical and social progress. It's a becoming humility thing.

That sounds to me an attempt to seek God in goodness wherever it is found, and abandon the biblical awfulness. There are various names for such theology. The God that emerges is not judgmental, more a standard that we ourselves cannot attain. I think supporters of the Abrahamic religions would want their God to walk and talk, get angry and hurt and be jealous when he wants to be. Christianity specifically wants that curious mixture of kindness and cruelty that says God so loved us he allowed his "son" to be tortured. What dad, asked for bread gives his son a stone and what dad seeing his son spat on and killed, would claim authorship of the plot?