Ten Commandments

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nobspeople
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Ten Commandments

Post #1

Post by nobspeople »

Ask 1000 christians "What, exactly, counts as 'a sin'?" and you'd probably get various answers. Most, somewhere in the conversation, would likely visit the Ten Commandments. Fair enough, I suppose. But are there other things that aren't included in the Ten Commandments - outliers - that are also sin?
Some say it's a sin to smoke, drink, do drugs, curse. Some say those are OK so long as you're not over indulging in them.
Some say it's a sin to kill another human being, while others say it's not if it pertains to justice and or self defense.
Some say it's a sin to blaspheme, yet many can't agree on what that is, exactly.
Some say it's a sin to disobey god, while others say it's not a sin, just not a good idea.
Some say it's a sin to be gay, while others say it's not, but the act it, while others still say being gay is not an issue.
Some say it's a sin to have sex before marriage, while others say it's not, while others still say having sex is a union and thus, dictates being married.

It seems that, if sin separates one from god, it's an important enough concept in which everyone should be able to fully grasp.

So, assuming violating the 10 CMDMTS is a sin, are there other things that are sinful as well? If yes, what are they, exactly? If not, is it safe to say obeying the 10 CMDMTS is a sure-fire way to avoid sin?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Ten Commandments

Post #91

Post by 1213 »

POI wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:22 pm ...and stop rationalizing. ...
That is funny, from person who apparently is an atheist. :D
POI wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:22 pm...Is the withholding of this known information always okay with God, or sometimes okay with God, or never okay with God?
I don't think Bible tells people must always tell everything they know.

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Re: Ten Commandments

Post #92

Post by POI »

1213 wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 5:38 pm
POI wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:22 pm ...and stop rationalizing. ...
That is funny, from person who apparently is an atheist. :D
Um, you just tried to sweep the presented scenario under the rug. I'm not going to chase your attempt at a redirect. Let's stay focused here... This is important, in that we are exploring the 9th Commandment of the Bible...

Again, your best friend is planning a huge 50th surprise birthday party for his wife. You are aware that he has been planning this event for a while. You happen to run into his wife, as you are running errands. She asks you, point-blank, "is my husband planning a party for me"? Do you:

a) say nothing, which would ruin the surprise
b) change the subject, which would ruin the surprise
c) plead the 5th, which would ruin the surprise
d) instead find a way to throw off the sent, which would likely include breaking Commandment #9 on some level?

I suspect you would choose option d). The fact that you avoided the meat and potatoes of my last response, gives me this hunch ;)
1213 wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 5:38 pm
POI wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:22 pm...Is the withholding of this known information always okay with God, or sometimes okay with God, or never okay with God?
I don't think Bible tells people must always tell everything they know.
How exactly do you determine, whether or not, to answer a direct question?

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Re: Ten Commandments

Post #93

Post by 1213 »

POI wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 7:12 pm …a) say nothing, which would ruin the surprise
b) change the subject, which would ruin the surprise
c) plead the 5th, which would ruin the surprise
d) instead find a way to throw off the sent, which would likely include breaking Commandment #9 on some level?
You could say that anything I do, would ruin it. But, my choice is:

e) I would say: “do you really think I would say anything about that, even if I would know?” :D

But, maybe you should know, lies can be seen from persons face. Even if I would try to lie, I would be very poor in that, so poor that I could as well tell everything. That is why, maybe no one should ever tell me anything that I would need to lie about.

Also, if I could lie and the person would know it later, it would ruin our relationship, so, why should I lie? It will only cause more problems and nothing good.

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Re: Ten Commandments

Post #94

Post by POI »

1213 wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 2:29 pm
POI wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 7:12 pm …a) say nothing, which would ruin the surprise
b) change the subject, which would ruin the surprise
c) plead the 5th, which would ruin the surprise
d) instead find a way to throw off the sent, which would likely include breaking Commandment #9 on some level?
You could say that anything I do, would ruin it. But, my choice is:

e) I would say: “do you really think I would say anything about that, even if I would know?” :D
Your response here goes directly back to my last reply. You ignored a direct question (i.e.) post #92:

How exactly do you determine, whether or not, to answer a direct question? I'll give you an example. You are asked (2) questions:

1) What's your favorite color?
2) Is my husband throwing me a surprise birthday party?

Before you answer, even question 1) may not be as benign as you may suspect... Your spouse may have bought you a red car for your anniversary. And she may say, as she presents it to you, "I bought you this car because I know red is your favorite color." But maybe red is no longer your favorite color, or maybe you do not like that car is the color red...? You know you cannot take the car back. You also see that she is really excited to give this car to you....
1213 wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 2:29 pm But, maybe you should know, lies can be seen from persons face. Even if I would try to lie, I would be very poor in that, so poor that I could as well tell everything. That is why, maybe no one should ever tell me anything that I would need to lie about.
As I told you, many responses ago, without 'lying', you would likely die alone. I ask you anew...

Are all "lies" equal? I would say no. Are some 'worse' than others? I would say yes, but then the writers of the Bible would disagree. Is there such a thing as a 'good lie'? I would say so... (i.e.) To protect against a greater fault, or to preserve a future happy event, or maybe other... Again, situational ethics...

You are trying to make it out to be that every lie is the same. It's not this "black and white". You ignored my prior response, via post #89, in that I mentioned situational ethics.

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Re: Ten Commandments

Post #95

Post by Avoice »

[Replying to Tcg in post #2]

It doesn't matter what this person says or that person says
What is G-d's opinion?what is his opinion on homosexuality? On pork? On keeping the Sabbath?

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Re: Ten Commandments

Post #96

Post by Avoice »

[Replying to benchwarmer in post #6]

I know exactly what you are talking about.

If I recall correctly when Jesus' states them he omits the first 4 or 5. Only alluding that he even acknowledges the first four. The remaining ones he quotes but removes one and inserts his own.

Paul omits the same ones then quotes the remaining ones but removes the one Jesus inserted and then put in his own.

cms

Re: Ten Commandments

Post #97

Post by cms »

The way I see it, if all the commandments are summed up in loving others as ourselves, as Scripture says, then this is what we should use to judge things. It's situational and there are some gray areas, but what more do we have to go on?

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Re: Ten Commandments

Post #98

Post by TRANSPONDER »

1213 wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 5:38 pm
POI wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:22 pm ...and stop rationalizing. ...
That is funny, from person who apparently is an atheist. :D
POI wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:22 pm...Is the withholding of this known information always okay with God, or sometimes okay with God, or never okay with God?
I don't think Bible tells people must always tell everything they know.
I'll take it that you weren't being abusive (atheists are themselves guilty of rationalising) and merely confused rationalism (using logical reasoning) with rationalizing (trying to excuse the inexcusible).

I won't comment much, as I'm out of the loop. We are trying to define lying for the purposes of clarifying that commandment (false witness)?

We know the rules. Acting a part is ok in a play or film (though, as we have come to see rather forcibly in recent years, even a fantasy has to have internal credibility) but someone acting a part in a supposed serious situation is a fraud and a liar. In my book, as a rule, anyone who pretends to cry during an interview is a fraud.

There's also the white lie. You all know what this is about and if not, check the scene in 'Invention of lying' where the mother is dying and is told a comfortable lie about the afterlife. Sometimes brutal honesty is...brutal.

And we know about the honest mistake. The lie starts where once the mistake is pointed out, and we then we get denial, evasion and abuse. A mistake is excusable, denial is not. Even there, Faith comes into it; there may be disagreement about what has been disproved, up to and including science - denial. Evolution and deep time is denied, a non - flat earth and a heliocentric system is not. Science denial seems to keep a close eye on what they can get away with and what will make them a laughing - stock. And rationalization comes in here. The clearly Babylonian snowdome -cosmos of Genesis is denied (because they will get laffs) and they will try to pretend that Genesis is actually talking about a round earth, heliocentric solar system and expanding universe.

Rationalization (spellcheck tells me it's not spelt with a 'z' but I don't care) is found in explaining away slavery - and I won't rehearse all the arguments here, but when the temporary enslavement of fellow Jews (explained as indentured servitude) is used to rationalize slavery in the Bible when that did not apply to non -Jews, who were property for life, we have gone beyond a mistake (recycling apologetics without research) through rationalization (trying to fiddle the facts to save the case) to denial of the facts. And that is as near lying as makes no difference, and faith based denial.... well, we may pity the deluded, but at the same time (as we know)they can be dangerous. Not just to science and education (trying to teach the Bible instead of science) but to society and I needn't elaborate.

That of course leaves out knowingly and deliberately lying. And even that has a place for legal advocates knowingly misrepresenting the facts to get the best deal for their client. But the liar who...lets have a hypothetical.. who inflates their wealth to attract investors and then deflates it to evade tax (and we did the rationalization that paying tax is as bad as slavery or rather, slavery is no worse than paying tax (1) is a liar, a fraud and a criminal,and should be sentenced, fined his total assets and jailed, preferably for life. Just as a hypothetical example.

But as I said, I won't comment much on this.

(1) which was denialism approaching lying and becoming a laughing stock. But that I have noted that a Believer will sometimes sacrifice his own credibility and that of his case rather than the Faith that the Bible contains no wrong.

cms

Re: Ten Commandments

Post #99

Post by cms »

POI wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:20 pm Are all "lies" equal? I would say no. Are some 'worse' than others? I would say yes, but then the writers of the Bible would disagree.
POI, No, I don't think the writers of the Bible would disagree with your statement ex. the story of Rahab.

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Re: Ten Commandments

Post #100

Post by 1213 »

TRANSPONDER wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 7:14 am ... The lie starts where once the mistake is pointed out, and we then we get denial, evasion and abuse. A mistake is excusable, denial is not. Even there, Faith comes into it; there may be disagreement about what has been disproved, up to and including science - denial. Evolution and deep time is denied, a non - flat earth and a heliocentric system is not. Science denial seems to keep a close eye on what they can get away with and what will make them a laughing - stock. And rationalization comes in here. The clearly Babylonian snowdome -cosmos of Genesis is denied (because they will get laffs) and they will try to pretend that Genesis is actually talking about a round earth, heliocentric solar system and expanding universe.
...
It is not necessary lying or wrong, if someone doesn’t accept your interpretations and beliefs as truth.

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