For debate:mgb wrote: People who use spiritual/psychic methods to obtain material goods are practicing magic (in league with evil spirits).
Please offer some means to confirm any of that is true and factual.
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For debate:mgb wrote: People who use spiritual/psychic methods to obtain material goods are practicing magic (in league with evil spirits).
I suspect that your quest has been ignored because there aren't any. In context, the reply was addressing the claim that an individual became a billionaire based on their practice of meditation. While I am not convinced that the claim has been supported, I don't think that those who practice meditation are "in league with evil spirits." To my knowledge those who practice meditation don't view it as such. This amounts to witch hunting as far as I can tell. Not unusual centuries ago, but a bit odd to see today.JoeyKnothead wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:28 pm From Post 27 here:
For debate:mgb wrote: People who use spiritual/psychic methods to obtain material goods are practicing magic (in league with evil spirits).
Please offer some means to confirm any of that is true and factual.
The definition of magic is: the power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.JoeyKnothead wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:28 pm From Post 27 here:
For debate:mgb wrote: People who use spiritual/psychic methods to obtain material goods are practicing magic (in league with evil spirits).
Please offer some means to confirm any of that is true and factual.
One has to wonder how it would be possible to know what "the overwhelming majority of Christians throughout the ages" have held on this subject. Be that as it may, we have this mention of magicians in the tale of the plagues. Perhaps Christians throughout the ages have overlooked it.
The author doesn't specify what the secret arts are, but it very well could be suggesting the use of magic and not a fantasy. Odd that the story claims that the magicians did the same thing Moses and Aaron had done given that all the water had already been turned into blood. Of course, we need not expect to find consistency when it comes to these stories.Exodus 7:20 Moses and Aaron did just as the Lord had commanded. He raised his staff in the presence of Pharaoh and his officials and struck the water of the Nile, and all the water was changed into blood. 21 The fish in the Nile died, and the river smelled so bad that the Egyptians could not drink its water. Blood was everywhere in Egypt.
22 But the Egyptian magicians did the same things by their secret arts, and Pharaoh’s heart became hard; he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the Lord had said.
I cannot speak to idiosyncratic beliefs. However the early Imperial church, as well as the Roman Catholic Church and Orthodox Church after the great schism, taught that witchcraft does not exist. The relatively few Protestant denominations that bother to take a stance on witchcraft, such as the Anglican Church, call it a false superstition.
Obviously you are free to believe that these “secret arts” are literal magic as opposed to sleight of hand. You are also free to imagine any timeline you want in order to create inconsistencies. This, of course, does not mean that such things are found in the biblical text.Tcg wrote: ↑Fri Dec 24, 2021 6:38 pm Be that as it may, we have this mention of magicians in the tale of the plagues. Perhaps Christians throughout the ages have overlooked it.The author doesn't specify what the secret arts are, but it very well could be suggesting the use of magic and not a fantasy. Odd that the story claims that the magicians did the same thing Moses and Aaron had done given that all the water had already been turned into blood. Of course, we need not expect to find consistency when it comes to these stories.Exodus 7:20 Moses and Aaron did just as the Lord had commanded. He raised his staff in the presence of Pharaoh and his officials and struck the water of the Nile, and all the water was changed into blood. 21 The fish in the Nile died, and the river smelled so bad that the Egyptians could not drink its water. Blood was everywhere in Egypt.
22 But the Egyptian magicians did the same things by their secret arts, and Pharaoh’s heart became hard; he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the Lord had said.
A bit odd perhaps, but not as uncommon as one might think.Tcg wrote: ↑Fri Dec 24, 2021 12:03 amI suspect that your quest has been ignored because there aren't any. In context, the reply was addressing the claim that an individual became a billionaire based on their practice of meditation. While I am not convinced that the claim has been supported, I don't think that those who practice meditation are "in league with evil spirits." To my knowledge those who practice meditation don't view it as such. This amounts to witch hunting as far as I can tell. Not unusual centuries ago, but a bit odd to see today.JoeyKnothead wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:28 pm From Post 27 here:
For debate:mgb wrote: People who use spiritual/psychic methods to obtain material goods are practicing magic (in league with evil spirits).
Please offer some means to confirm any of that is true and factual.
See Innocent VIII's papal bull "Summis Desiderantes Affectibus" of 1484.the early Imperial church, as well as the Roman Catholic Church and Orthodox Church after the great schism, taught that witchcraft does not exist.