Are Catholics dropping five sacraments?

[polonius]

The Alpha movement is gradually being incorporated into Catholic teaching. But it sometimes disagrees significantly with older Catholic teachings.

Some sacraments have been dropped.

On the web we learn from an Alpha writing (Questions Of Life, p. 222].

ALPHA recognizes only one priesthood, "The priesthood of all believers" [ibid, p. 230].

"The priest is understood merely as an "elder", "a leader in the church" but one who "is not a sacrificing priest". Thus, it follows, that the 'Eucharist' is understood solely as 'the Lord's Supper' when "we remember his sacrifice with thanksgiving and partake of its benefits" but not as a holy sacrifice as in Catholic teaching. The explanation of this thinking is that "now Jesus, our great high priest (hiereus), has made the supreme sacrifice of his own life on our behalf. No further sacrifices are necessary and no further priests are necessary" [ibid, p. 229].

This, of course, is contrary to previous Catholic Church's teaching."

[MarysSon]

And as I already schooled you back in post #4 -


So, instead of bearing FALSE witness, which is abhorrent to God - try telling the truth for a change . . .

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Sooooo, anti-Catholics are allowed to create threads that are completely based in lies - yet Catholics are NOT allowed to hold them accountable for lying??

If you want to run an anti-Catholic site - you should just advertise this fact in the registration page . . .

[otseng]

Sooooo, anti-Catholics are allowed to create threads that are completely based in lies - yet Catholics are NOT allowed to hold them accountable for lying??

If you want to run an anti-Catholic site - you should just advertise this fact in the registration page . . .

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[MarysSon]

Sooooo, anti-Catholics are allowed to create threads that are completely based in lies - yet Catholics are NOT allowed to hold them accountable for lying??

If you want to run an anti-Catholic site - you should just advertise this fact in the registration page . . .

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Then please make sure you apply those rules to everybody here - and NOT just the Catholics . . .

[polonius]

"The priest is understood merely as an "elder", "a leader in the church" but one who "is not a sacrificing priest". Thus, it follows, that the 'Eucharist' is understood solely as 'the Lord's Supper' when "we remember his sacrifice with thanksgiving and partake of its benefits" but not as a holy sacrifice as in Catholic teaching. The explanation of this thinking is that "now Jesus, our great high priest (hiereus), has made the supreme sacrifice of his own life on our behalf. No further sacrifices are necessary and no further priests are necessary" [ibid, p. 229].

This, of course, is contrary to previous Catholic Church's teaching."[/quote]

COMMENT: Why would you post such a ridiculously dishonest claim??
This is a LIE of gargantuan proportions.

RESPONSE: Perhaps because I live in the real world and check references. Perhaps your librarian can assist you in obtaining the book to end your error and your rave.

ALPHA recognizes only one priesthood, "The priesthood of all believers" [ibid, p. 230]. The priest is understood merely as an "elder", "a leader in the church" but one who "is not a sacrificing priest". Thus, it follows, that the 'Eucharist' is understood solely as 'the Lord's Supper' when "we remember his sacrifice with thanksgiving and partake of its benefits" but not as a holy sacrifice as in Catholic teaching. The explanation of this thinking is that "now Jesus, our great high priest (hiereus), has made the supreme sacrifice of his own life on our behalf. No further sacrifices are necessary and no further priests are necessary" [ibid, p. 229]. This, of course, is contrary in essence to the Church's teaching.

Here again is Gumbel (creator of the Alpha course) statement. Check his foundational writings for the Alpha movement.

[MarysSon]

"The priest is understood merely as an "elder", "a leader in the church" but one who "is not a sacrificing priest". Thus, it follows, that the 'Eucharist' is understood solely as 'the Lord's Supper' when "we remember his sacrifice with thanksgiving and partake of its benefits" but not as a holy sacrifice as in Catholic teaching. The explanation of this thinking is that "now Jesus, our great high priest (hiereus), has made the supreme sacrifice of his own life on our behalf. No further sacrifices are necessary and no further priests are necessary" [ibid, p. 229].

This, of course, is contrary to previous Catholic Church's teaching."

COMMENT: Why would you post such a ridiculously dishonest claim??
This is a LIE of gargantuan proportions.

RESPONSE: Perhaps because I live in the real world and check references. Perhaps your librarian can assist you in obtaining the book to end your error and your rave.

ALPHA recognizes only one priesthood, "The priesthood of all believers" [ibid, p. 230]. The priest is understood merely as an "elder", "a leader in the church" but one who "is not a sacrificing priest". Thus, it follows, that the 'Eucharist' is understood solely as 'the Lord's Supper' when "we remember his sacrifice with thanksgiving and partake of its benefits" but not as a holy sacrifice as in Catholic teaching. The explanation of this thinking is that "now Jesus, our great high priest (hiereus), has made the supreme sacrifice of his own life on our behalf. No further sacrifices are necessary and no further priests are necessary" [ibid, p. 229]. This, of course, is contrary in essence to the Church's teaching.

Here again is Gumbel (creator of the Alpha course) statement. Check his foundational writings for the Alpha movement.[/quote]
Wrong.

I stated:
"The Catholic Church is not "dropping" an sacraments - now or ever. Alpha is merely a program that introduces people to Christ in a personal way. It's NOT meant to make "changes in doctrine."

YOU responded with another lie:
“Sure. Where have you been? This is becoming the new Catholicism. Ask you pastor.�

NOTHING could be further from the truth. There is no “New� Catholicism or “changes� in doctrine.
This is a lie hatched by YOU - not the leaders of ALPHA

As for ALPHA – this program is not accepted by all - but it certainly is NOT a catalyst for “changing doctrine�. The Catholic Church has never change a SINGLE doctrine in its 2000 year history - and is not about to start doing that now just because YOU can’t tell the truth . . .

Try being honest - for a change . . .

[otseng]

Why would you post such a ridiculously dishonest claim??
This is a LIE of gargantuan proportions.
Try being honest - for a change . . .

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[polonius]

I tend to ignore assertions without evidence, especially broad assertions without evidence.

Do you have any such evidence regarding Alpha?

What does the senior cardinal in America say about Alpha?

“I must make it clear that the program may not be used, in any form�
Cardinal Raymond Burke has condemned the Alpha Program now used in thousands of Catholic parishes in 70 countries as a tool for evangelization and catechesis.
As the international director of the Marian Catechist Apostolate, Cdl. Burke was asked in December of 2015 to review the Alpha program for its possible use by Catholics. After doing so, the cardinal issued this sobering warning: “Having studied the program, both from the perspective of doctrine and methodology, I must make it clear that the program may not be used, in any form, in the Marian Catechist Apostolate and that Marian Catechists are not to become involved with it.�

Are you claiming that you know nothing about Alpha or what it's teachings are?

If you like, I'll send you Cardinal Burke's e-mail address. If you write or e-mail him please sent a copy of his reply to your pastor and perhaps post what Cardinal Burke tells you.

[Elijah John]

I tend to ignore assertions without evidence, especially broad assertions without evidence.

Do you have any such evidence regarding Alpha?

What does the senior cardinal in America say about Alpha?

“I must make it clear that the program may not be used, in any form�
Cardinal Raymond Burke has condemned the Alpha Program now used in thousands of Catholic parishes in 70 countries as a tool for evangelization and catechesis.
As the international director of the Marian Catechist Apostolate, Cdl. Burke was asked in December of 2015 to review the Alpha program for its possible use by Catholics. After doing so, the cardinal issued this sobering warning: “Having studied the program, both from the perspective of doctrine and methodology, I must make it clear that the program may not be used, in any form, in the Marian Catechist Apostolate and that Marian Catechists are not to become involved with it.�

Are you claiming that you know nothing about Alpha or what it's teachings are?

If you like, I'll send you Cardinal Burke's e-mail address. If you write or e-mail him please sent a copy of his reply to your pastor and perhaps post what Cardinal Burke tells you.

In light of your knowing Cardinal Burke's position on Alpha, why did you assert in the OP that "The Alpha movement is gradually being incorporated into Catholic teaching"? That is misleading. You go on to say that "it sometimes disagrees significantly with older Catholic teachings", implying that Alpha does not disagree with the RCC's current teachings. Again, misleading.

And the OP blatantly asserts that "some sacraments have been dropped" when in reality none of the RCC's sacraments have been dropped.

Unless the wording of the OP doesn't precisely convey what you intended to say, it seems your topic is little more than a straw man misrepresentation of the Church's position.

[MarysSon]

I tend to ignore assertions without evidence, especially broad assertions without evidence.

Do you have any such evidence regarding Alpha?

What does the SENIOR CARDINAL in America say about Alpha?

“I must make it clear that the program may not be used, in any form�
Cardinal Raymond Burke has condemned the Alpha Program now used in thousands of Catholic parishes in 70 countries as a tool for evangelization and catechesis.
As the international director of the Marian Catechist Apostolate, Cdl. Burke was asked in December of 2015 to review the Alpha program for its possible use by Catholics. After doing so, the cardinal issued this sobering warning: “Having studied the program, both from the perspective of doctrine and methodology, I must make it clear that the program may not be used, in any form, in the Marian Catechist Apostolate and that Marian Catechists are not to become involved with it.�

Are you claiming that you know nothing about Alpha or what it's teachings are?

If you like, I'll send you Cardinal Burke's e-mail address. If you write or e-mail him please sent a copy of his reply to your pastor and perhaps post what Cardinal Burke tells you.

No - the only thing YOU tend to ignore is the truth.

As I stated before - your entire thread is based on a LIE. The Catholic Church is NOT changing it's doctrines based on ALPHA or anything else.

Secondly - Cardinal Burke is NOT the "Senior" anything. He is a Cardinal and is equal among his fellow Cardinals. He has NO jurisdiction over any other diocese than his own.

Finally - I have been through the ALPHA program so I know exactly what I'm talking about. The Catholic version of the ALPHA program does NOT incorporate the ideas about the rejection of a sacrificial or ministerial Priesthood. Is is BASED on the original ALPHA program but is geared towards Catholics.

Your dishonesty is despicable . . .

[polonius]

Let me guess. Alpha Christianity? Even if Cardinal Burke objects?

And the next Alpha chage is speaking in tongues. Want the reference?