Buffet Christianity

[Zzyzx]

.
Buffet Christianity / Pick and Choose / Cherry Pick

Focus on parts of the Bible and ignore others. Claim that it is 'The word of God' also claim that parts have been superseded (God changed his mind about things?).

Paul/Saul and gospel writers disagree with many teachings of Judaism but claim that their icon was the Jewish messiah (denied by Jews).

The NT does not list the Ten Commandments. Those come from Judaism (but are revered in Christendom). However, 600+ other rules from Judaism are cast aside as though they don't apply to Christians. Why some and not others? Did God decide which rules no longer apply or which rules apply to which people? Or did humans decide?

Some Bible stories have come to be accepted as folklore or myth or parables (or simply ignored) while others are fiercely defended as true accounts. Did Samson push down a large building by brute strength? Did Jonah live for three days inside a fish? Did the sea part on command? Well, maybe not literally, only figuratively.

Did Jesus come back to life? "Now wait a minute. That is a true story."

Pick and choose.

Which stories, if any, are true and accurate accounts of events that actually happened in the real world AND how can that be determined?

[JehovahsWitness]

QUESTION Should Christian men be CIRCUMCISED ?

• Answer: No. Circumcision was a physical sign of the special relationship God had with Abraham and his descendants. This covenant or formal agreement often refered to as the Covenant of Circumcision (not to be confused with The Abrahamic Covenant which was instituted some 20 years earlier in 1943 BCE ran from 1919 BCE and remains to this day) was a sign of the special relationship God had with the decendants of Abraham.
  
  Does the bible not say these respective covenants would last forever? No, the Hebrew word used in connection to the duration of these covenants is invariably OLAM which basically means "a long time" / "a time of indefinitite length". It can mean forever (since forever is indeed a long time of indefinite length, but it can also simply refer to something the end of which cannot be seen or determined)
  

  For a more in depth post on the meaning OLAM please see my earlier post on this subject HERE
  viewtopic.php?p=856400#p856400

JW


RELATED POSTS

Was Abraham a historical figure?
viewtopic.php?p=1085707#p1085707

Why did God keep repeating his promises to Abraham?
viewtopic.php?p=1013548#p1013548

What is the ABRAHAMIC covenant ?
viewtopic.php?p=1014247#p1014247

Are Christians under the Mosaic law?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 76#p950776

Is there a biblical obsession with circumcision?
viewtopic.php?p=974475#p974475

Should Christian men be circumcised [this post]?
viewtopic.php?p=1014247#p1014247

Was Abraham instructed to MURDER his son?
viewtopic.php?p=987077#p987077

Is God guilty of FAVORITISM regarding the Israelites?
viewtopic.php?p=1027465#p1027465

[William]

I however, and many like me choose to hold all the bible to be 100% "true and accurate" and hold that such a position as absolutely necessary for our faith.

Mark 8:34 He called the crowd with his disciples, and said to them, "If any want to become my followers, let them deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.

Mark 10:21 Jesus, looking at him, loved him and said, "You lack one thing; go, sell what you own, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me." 22 When he heard this, he was shocked and went away grieving, for he had many possessions.

Matthew 6:19 "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust consume and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Matthew 6:25 "Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing?

Luke 12:32 Do not be afraid, little flock, for it is your Fathers good pleasure to give you the kingdom. 33 Sell your possessions, and give alms.

Luke 14:33 So therefore, none of you can become my disciple if you do not give up all your possessions.

If a person wants to be a Christian - a disciple of Christ (Acts 11:26) - yet feels that they can do so without giving up all their possessions, saying that they accept Christ's reported words as 100% true and accurate is... shall we say... stretching things a little Maybe they are true-ish? True for some people but not for me and Zacchaeus? "100% true" in some kind of technical sense, but just unintentionally and wildly misleading?

I suppose in a way that is the beauty of it. In another thread a new member refers to himself as a Christian and tells me I cannot call him a brother unless I am "Born-again" and "Recognize that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and only Saviour" and have "Prayed to God seeking His sacrifice for me"

He say's if I can say as much, then..."yes, we are brothers. If not...we are not brothers."

I see it as a developing problem when religion is formed from the words of a Spiritual Teacher. The branches naturally go out all over the place as they extend into time and space and occupy portions of the real-estate...such as it has become.

To save me from having to quarrel with my brethren even over what we each think being 'born again' means, I simply do away with having to have someone explain to me what Jesus meant when he said whatever he said.

In that, I carry on with what I feel is a Spiritual walk with a Spiritual Teacher - apparently present but invisible all the same.

Whatever others may feel about my particular journey - what little they know of it - how I go about living my life is not their place to judge...at least not according to Jesus.

If it turns out to be true, I will hear it from Jesus in person...unless of course he knows that I don't need to hear it, because he is happy enough with the way I am living my life.

A smorgasbord has been provided. This does not mean we need to cram everyone's favorite onto our own plate.

A theists or non-theists opinion on the matter isn't even relevant if all I pick are cherries. I m more inclined to listen to the theist of course, because they at least have some understanding and there is opportunity for bridging to occur between our selections [opinions] but I do not see any justification to bend an ear to a non-theist when told I am doing it 'wrong' because I choose not to plate everything available to me on the buffet table.

[Tcg]

Thanks to surveys such as the Pew Reports we have verifiable, quantifiable evidence that Jehovahs Witnesses actually apply Jesus words in real life, not just in theory.

JW

No, we don't. The only thing this Pew Report provides is household incomes. It provides no explanation why these levels are what they are.

It could be that the JWs target lower income people with their recruitment drives.

It could a sign of sloth or laziness.

It could be because JWs have a lower education level and only qualify for lower paying jobs.

It could even be that JWs don't report their full income in order to avoid paying taxes.

I'm not suggesting that these are necessarily the reasons, simply pointing out that there are many other possibilities than, "...Jehovahs Witnesses actually apply Jesus words in real life, not just in theory."


Tcg

[tonjun]

QUESTION Should Christian men be CIRCUMCISED ?

• Answer: No. Circumcision was a physical sign of the special relationship God had with Abraham and his descendants. This covenant or formal agreement often refered to as the Covenant of Circumcision (not to be confused with The Abrahamic Covenant which was instituted some 20 years earlier in 1943 BCE) ran from 1919 BCE through to the end of the Law covenant, in 33 C.E.
  
  Does the bible not say these respective covenants would last forever? No, the Hebrew word used in connection to the duration of these covenants is invariably OLAM which basically means "a long time" / "a time of indefinitite length". It can mean forever (since forever is indeed a long time of indefinite length, but it can also simply refer to something the end of which cannot be seen or determined)

Original Word: (o-lawm')

ages (1), all successive (1), always (1), ancient (13), ancient times (3), continual (1), days of old (1), eternal (2), eternity (3), ever (10), Everlasting (2), everlasting (110), forever (136), forever and ever (1), forever* (70), forevermore* (1), lasting (1), long (2), long ago (3), long past (1), long time (3), never* (17), old (11), permanent (10), permanently (1), perpetual (29), perpetually (1).

You forgot to include NASB Translation there JW. Looks like you're wrong.

https://biblehub.com/hebrew/5769.htm

Or how about Englishman's Concordance (on the right side of the page)?

HEB:

NAS: and eat, and live forever--
KJV: and eat, and live for ever:
INT: and eat of life forever

The same word everlasting ( ) used in Genesis 17:13 which is not translated as just "a long duration".

[William]

QUESTION Should Christian men be CIRCUMCISED ?

• Answer: No. Circumcision was a physical sign of the special relationship God had with Abraham and his descendants. This covenant or formal agreement often refered to as the Covenant of Circumcision (not to be confused with The Abrahamic Covenant which was instituted some 20 years earlier in 1943 BCE) ran from 1919 BCE through to the end of the Law covenant, in 33 C.E.
  
  Does the bible not say these respective covenants would last forever? No, the Hebrew word used in connection to the duration of these covenants is invariably OLAM which basically means "a long time" / "a time of indefinitite length". It can mean forever (since forever is indeed a long time of indefinite length, but it can also simply refer to something the end of which cannot be seen or determined)

Original Word: (o-lawm')

ages (1), all successive (1), always (1), ancient (13), ancient times (3), continual (1), days of old (1), eternal (2), eternity (3), ever (10), Everlasting (2), everlasting (110), forever (136), forever and ever (1), forever* (70), forevermore* (1), lasting (1), long (2), long ago (3), long past (1), long time (3), never* (17), old (11), permanent (10), permanently (1), perpetual (29), perpetually (1).

You forgot to include NASB Translation there JW. Looks like you're wrong.

https://biblehub.com/hebrew/5769.htm

Or how about Englishman's Concordance (on the right side of the page)?

HEB:

NAS: and eat, and live forever--
KJV: and eat, and live for ever:
INT: and eat of life forever

The same word everlasting ( ) used in Genesis 17:13 which is not translated as just "a long duration".

Ah the buffet of the language when it comes to one word having a variety of meanings. All seem to apply to time and motion.
Science informs us that this universe is destined to to fade. Indeed, the sun will eventually expand and envelop the earth, along with all creatures great and small, circumcised or otherwise.

Thus it is more likely the practice of circumcision might go on for ages, but will eventually have to cease.
We understand this because we are no longer ignorant of the cosmic scale of nature.

[tonjun]

Ah the buffet of the language when it comes to one word having a variety of meanings. All seem to apply to time and motion.
Science informs us that this universe is destined to to fade. Indeed, the sun will eventually expand and envelop the earth, along with all creatures great and small, circumcised or otherwise.

Thus it is more likely the practice of circumcision might go on for ages, but will eventually have to cease.
We understand this because we are no longer ignorant of the cosmic scale of nature.

The world may become nonexistent one day, but I think the idea will live forever - circumcised or not, that God's word was here on Earth.

Now whether one believes God's word was actually here on earth or not is another story.

But the idea will never really die I suppose.

How do you kill an idea?

[Zzyzx]

.

How do you kill an idea?

Is this to say that every idea that ever existed still exists?

[tonjun]

.

How do you kill an idea?

Is this to say that every idea that ever existed still exists?

Quite possibly. To go further than this is probably beyond me, but possible.

Can we somehow say an idea is dead and nonexistent?

Do all ideas die when we all die?

Maybe. Maybe not.

At this moment it is just my opinion, and speculation to some degree.

Hmm, something more to think about...

Now I think I'll go crazy in my own corner while I chew on this perpetual seemingly cycle of an unresolved answer in this lifetime.

[Zzyzx]

Now I think I'll go crazy in my own corner while I chew on this perpetual seemingly cycle of an unresolved answer in this lifetime.

We are all in our own little corner . . . let's keep plugging away as energy permits.

[JehovahsWitness]

You forgot to include NASB Translation there JW.

Did you forget to take the time to read my earlier post on this that was included in the original post?

For a more in depth post on the meaning OLAM please see my earlier post on this subject HERE
viewtopic.php?p=856400#p856400

JW




RELATED POSTS

Is there anything in scripture to imply Aion(s) can be never ending?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 68#p421968