Why Doesn't Anyone Know What A God Is?

[DavidLeon]

Debate Question: What is a god? Why is it that no one seems to understand the simple concept of god anymore? Hopefully what I will do here is demonstrate why no one seems to know what a god is by demonstrating what exactly a god is. Hopefully.

[DavidLeon]

ven·er·ate
/ˈvenəˌrāt/
verb
verb: venerate; 3rd person present: venerates; past tense: venerated; past participle: venerated; gerund or present participle: venerating
......regard with great respect; revere.

Boy, if that's all it takes to be a god, it's diluted the meaning to make the word almost worthless. Being regarded with great respect, Robert E. Lee and Adolph Hitler are just as much gods as the guy Jesus and company worshiped.

.

Exactly! Excellent! Now you've got it. It isn't the god concept that is so awe inspiring and fear inspiring, it's the specific God who it seems to be assumed is the very definition of god. I don't know if I've given my Prairie illustration here? It gives you a real good idea of what the god concept is.

A man crosses a vast prairie. It's getting dark. He's cold, he's hungry and the wolves are closing in. He has no food and no fuel for a fire but eventually he stumbles upon something laying on the ground in the tall grass. He discovers it's a dried pile of bovine dung. Beneath it he finds creeping things to eat and looking around he finds more. Making a pile he soon has a fire keeping him warm and protecting him from the wolves. He makes the bovine dung his God, for it saved him, provided sustenance and protection.

Primitive people made fertility symbols, gods, representing genitalia. In fact that's what the cross is. It was around long before Jesus. Today people make gods of money, fashion, mundane things like knitting, baking . . . I was watching an old episode of my favorite TV show, South Park, on DVR last night. Randy Marsh makes a god of cooking. It can be sex, science, music, art, it can be anything or anyone. It doesn't have to be about creation, supernatural, morals. It can be anything that you have no control over, that has control over you. Higher power the Alcoholic's Anonymous call it.



Notice that those things don't have to be gods to everyone. Jehovah isn't a god to everyone. Just because I say that bovine dung can be a god doesn't mean all bovine dung is a god. I don't believe in Zeus. Don't believe he existed. Don't worship or venerate Zeus. Zeus isn't my god, but Zeus is a god nevertheless.

Since a god doesn't even have to exist, it can be a mythological or fictional character, it isn't all that significant to ask whether gods exist or not. Frodo was a god in the 1960's. Some gods exist, some don't.

[Willum]

[Replying to DavidLeon in post #1]
God is an imaginary being venerated by a culture.
If you can find an exception to that, let me know.

If you can demonstrate that statement is true, please let me know.

Is Zeus real?
Is Odin real?
Is Isis real?
Is Ba'el real?
Is Quetzalcoatl?
Is Dagda real?
Is Baba Yaga real?
Is Kuan-Yin real?
Is Torm real?

I expect your answer to all these is "no."
It is not a comprehensive list -
Then, we will ask you to demonstrate how these modern, ancient and other deities are different from any other deity you might be thinking of.
If you could do that, then everyone would worship whichever deity you are thinking of.

As it is, you will have demonstrated whatever deity you are thinking of is indistinguishable from these.
QED

[Willum]

[Replying to DavidLeon in post #6]

Sorry, typo, fixed...
"A god is an imaginary being venerated by a culture."

A definition without any exception.

[bjs1]

I'm talking about what makes a god a god. If you look in the dictionary it doesn't actually give the meaning of the word, it gives the common uses by giving various examples of gods.

This is a confusing statement. The common uses of a word is its definition. Words have the meaning that we give them. There is no inherent meaning to any given arrangement of letters; the way people use a word is what the word means.

What is the one thing which each of those, or any person, place, or thing that is called a god have in common?

There's only one thing. Veneration. So a god doesn't have to be supernatural, doesn't have to have created anything, doesn't necessarily provide answers about purpose of life or what happens to us when we die.

Sure, whatever people venerate can be called a god. People can make money their god. Or they can make sex their god. That is one way to use the term god.

It would be misleading to say that this is the only meaning for the term god. The term can also be used to refer specifically to a supernatural Being, or the Supreme Being, or to the Creator of the universe and source of all moral authority.

People who use the word that way have not misunderstood the concept of god. They correctly understand that words have different meanings in different contexts. It would be a misunderstanding of the term “god” to suggest that the word can only means something that is venerated. It can mean only that, but it can also mean something else.

Imagine someone saying “I pray to God,” and later saying, “Money is his god.” No person with knowledge of the English language would suggest that “god” means the same thing in both those sentences.

[bjs1]

[Replying to DavidLeon in post #1]
God is an imaginary being venerated by a culture.
If you can find an exception to that, let me know.

If you can demonstrate that statement is true, please let me know.

Is Zeus real?
Is Odin real?
Is Isis real?
Is Ba'el real?
Is Quetzalcoatl?
Is Dagda real?
Is Baba Yaga real?
Is Kuan-Yin real?
Is Torm real?

I expect your answer to all these is "no."
It is not a comprehensive list -
Then, we will ask you to demonstrate how these modern, ancient and other deities are different from any other deity you might be thinking of.
If you could do that, then everyone would worship whichever deity you are thinking of.

As it is, you will have demonstrated whatever deity you are thinking of is indistinguishable from these.
QED

I did ask you to demonstrate that “God is an imaginary being venerated by a culture.” Nothing in your post even attempts to do so. If you ever get around to trying to trying to demonstrate that your statement is true, please let me know.

Also, you can stop writing QED. It has not been demonstrated, and if it has been then you can let people see that for themselves.

[brunumb]

Why do I venerate and worship Jehovah above all others? Because he is sovereign. He created the heavens and earth. He is the only god bringing us life, even in this temporary, imperfect and wicked system the life we have is amazingly awesome. And he gives us hope for a future that we can't even imagine. Which, by the way, is what he originally intended. That purpose has only been briefly stalled.

Thank you for that response. May I now ask how you know all of that to be true.

[Willum]

[Replying to bjs1 in post #15]

Ok, I will answer it for you.
All gods listed are imaginary.
It is impossible to list every god.
They are or were venerated by their cultures.

Therefore gods are imaginary beings venerated by their cultures.

Your saying I have not demonstrated this is specious, unless you can tell me how or why.
It is your claim I am incorrect, so you must either show where one of my examples is wrong, or show a case with evidence to distinguish the example you bring up invalidates my premise.

I can do nothing more.
I can see no exception to the definition... that may be my weakness, and I will needs others to show where, if,it is wrong.
It is true until you show it is wrong.

Note, my original post did not have an “A” beginning it, which may be leading to confusion.
I have amended it, this may help.

[bjs1]

[Replying to Willum in post #17]

If you look back at my posts then you will notice that the only claim that I have made is that you have not demonstrated that “A god is an imaginary being venerated by a culture” is a true statement, which you have not. I have made no other claims, and I wait patiently you for you to show that you claim is true. Please refrain from assigning claims to me and then demanding that I prove them true.

[Willum]

[Replying to bjs1 in post #18]

I have submitted the proof.
I am awaiting you to dispute it, other than by claiming it is not true.

To analogize:

I have proposed that the 2 + 2 = 4.
and given the reason 2 = 1 + 1, therefore 2 + 2 = 1 + 1 + 1 + 1

You have said I am wrong without telling me why.
In the example above, you could say, "it is not true in binary," in which case, I would have to agree.

I do NOT understand why you say my demonstration is incorrect, until you do so, I can not either:
1. Agree with you I have not demonstrated it.
2. Point out an element you have missed.

Until I know what you don't understand, I can not progress.
However, until you point out WHY the argument is wrong, both gods are imaginary and 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 4.
Capice?

[Willum]

[Replying to bjs1 in post #18]

Still another way to accomplish your goal would be to propose a definition or other description of a god or gods that better describes a god or gods better than mine.

But it is the same, until you confound the definition, by an understandable and communicated objection, or by providing a more accurate one, you must accept it.