Evidence For And Against Evolution

[Miles]

.

Came across this little gem a bit ago and thought I'd share.




Thoughts?

.

[We_Are_VENOM]

[Replying to Bust Nak in post #90]

Well, well, well, looky what we have here. My old friend and nemesis, Mr. Bust Nak.

How are you, sir.

In case you didn't know, I am formerly "For_the_Kingdom".

*daps*

You are on my hit list, and I was gonna send you a formal greeting..but I thought to myself; it will be more fun if he FOUND ME.

And you found me.

Look, materialism has no explanatory power, which is needed to explain..

1. The origin of the universe
2. The origin of life
3. The origin of consciousness

You just simply can't do it. The God Hypothesis is the best explanation to explain the origin of those 3 things.

Either acknowledge and accept this, or simple accept the challenge to a debate on the Kalam Cosmological Argument.

Take ur pick.

[Miles]

Look, materialism has no explanatory power, which is needed to explain..

1. The origin of the universe
2. The origin of life
3. The origin of consciousness

You just simply can't do it. The God Hypothesis is the best explanation to explain the origin of those 3 things.

Ah yes, the explanation of last resort: magic.

"In space, no—one can hear you scream. Right? Space is a vacuum, so there shouldn’t be any noise. And yet...you guessed it, there is.

The entire universe is alive with sound. And space roar isn’t just everyday sound; it’s actually these odd radio signals that we’ve detected throughout space. You know radio waves. Well, it looks like space is full of them, kicking out a noise that’s loud enough to drown out other signals – which is quite the nuisance for scientists trying to explore the cosmos."
SOURCE

Can't figure out what's going on here? It's god humming a few bars.

Can't figure out how the stones of Stonehenge were cut and transported? God cut and moved them.

Can't figure out where your other sock went? God took it.

.

[DrNoGods]

[Replying to We_Are_VENOM in post #79]

However, your position is that God does NOT exist...and since that is your position, then there is no positing God as a means of creation, because GOD DOES NOT EXIST, according to you.

So it is FTK, from my home state of NC I believe (from another post on this website where you posted a link to your personal website). We've had this dialog before. But a quick couple of comments. First, from the quoted text above, I do not claim and never have that "GOD DOES NOT EXIST." I am an atheist, which means I lack a belief in gods. But that is not a claim that they don't exist, only that I don't believe that they exist because I've never seen any convincing evidence that they do. If one of these beings popped out of the clouds and introduced itself I'd change my mind. But I won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen (or anything remotely similar).

Secondly, abiogenesis does not have to transition to a "brute fact" before it can be considered as a possibility. As I said, it is an open scientific hypothesis that may well turn out to be correct. I personally think it will be shown to be correct eventually, but until then it is on the table along with all of the other options. It has never been shown NOT to be an option, and until that happens it is in the running. It is certainly a lot more plausible than god magic, and by your own logic since the existence of a god of any kind is not a "brute fact", it seems that option is just as questionable as abiogenesis, or more so.

[Clownboat]

A reptile did not evolve into a bird. If you want to argue against evolution find out what is involved before you start.

Well, write a letter to these guys..

https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibra ... 20modified.

And tell them that you disagree with their assessments.

Due to the fact (that you are seemingly not aware of) that evolution works within populations of animals, a reptile did not evolve into a bird.

Populations change over time, similar to how language evolved.
Try reading old English to assist your understanding:

Old English (1066 AD)
An. M.LXVI. On þyssum geare man halgode þet mynster æt Westmynstre on Cyldamæsse dæg 7 se cyng Eadward forðferde on Twelfts mæsse æfen 7 hine mann bebyrgede on Twelftan mæssedæg innan þære niwa halgodre circean on Westmyntre 7 Harold eorl feng to Englalandes cynerice swa swa se cyng hit him geuðe 7 eac men hine þærto gecuron 7 wæs gebletsod to cynge on Twelftan mæssedæg 7 þa ylcan geare þe he cyng wæs he for ut mid sciphere togeanes Willelme ... 7 þa hwile com Willelm eorl upp æt Hestingan on Sce Michaeles mæssedæg 7 Harold com norðan 7 him wið gefeaht ear þan þe his here com eall 7 þær he feoll 7 his twægen gebroðra Gyrð 7 Leofwine and Willelm þis land geeode 7 com to Westmynstre 7 Ealdred arceb hine to cynge gehalgode 7 menn guldon him gyld 7 gislas sealdon 7 syððan heora land bohtan.

Modern English
1066 In this year the monastery at Westminster was hallowed on Childermas day (28 December). And king Eadward died on Twelfth-mass eve (5 January) and he was buried on Twelfth-mass day, in the newly hallowed church at Westminster. And earl Harold succeeded to the Kingdom of England, as the king had granted it to him and men had also chosen him thereto and he was blessed as king on Twelfth-mass day. And in the same year that he was king he went out with a naval force against William ... And the while count William landed at Hastings, on St. Michael's mass-day and Harold came from the north and fought against him before his army had all come and there he fell and his two brothers Gyrth and Leofwine and William subdued this land, and came to Westminster and archbishop Ealdred hallowed him king and men paid him tribute and gave him hostages and afterwards bought their land

It would be silly to think that one person woke up one morning speaking a new language. Similar to how silly it would be to think that a reptile gave birth to a bird. Like language, the changes took time and entire populations were involved. I'm sure you will reject this explanation when it comes to evolution due to trying to maintain a religious belief, but forget religion and the gods for a moment and see evolution at work in language if you are able.

[brunumb]

No thank you. Are we gonna pretend that there aren't closed-minded atheists out there who won't even consider the possibility of a god existing?

Don't you consider the unwillingness to even consider what the clip has to say as the epitome of being closed-minded? Oh well.

[brunumb]

The fact that a reptile evolved into a bird is one of the most well known facts of evolution (according to the theory), so why would you have the nerve to say "a reptile didn't evolve into a bird" is beyond me.

You have not taken into account that I bolded a couple of words in my statement. A reptile did not evolve into a bird. Birds did evolve from reptilian ancestors. Creationists continually misrepresent the process making ridiculous statements like rabbits evolving wings and that is how I view your statement regarding the bird from the reptile.

[brunumb]

I don't believe evolution (macroevolution) can happen at ALL. So if I don't believe it happened at all, then the time-frame at which it allegedly occurs becomes irrelevant.

So your belief comes first and then you summarily dismiss any contradictory evidence in order to shore up that belief. Got it. That seems to be straight out of the creationist manifesto.

[brunumb]

Your request is like a builder telling you it will take 6 months to build your house and you demanding to see it finished tomorrow.

I will expect to see the house built in 6 months, not a hundred million years.

Please read what I said again. Your response bears no relation to the example I used to highlight the fact that your request is unreasonable. Was it just a dodge to avoid acknowledging that fact?

[brunumb]

For the evolutionists (who are usually hardcore science-loving atheists), evolution is the only game in town...they don't believe in God, so evolution is the only thing that they can appeal to in order to account for the origin of species...which is why, like religious folks, they defend their "faith" so vigorously, at all costs...even willing to defy all logic and reasoning, just to hold true to their faith.

You really aren't making any case with that emotional rant. It can easily be turned around to reflect the creationist position as follows:

For the creationists (who are usually hardcore science-denying theists), creation is the only game in town...they believe in God, so creation is the only thing that they can appeal to in order to account for the origin of species...which is why they defend their "faith" so vigorously, at all costs...even willing to defy all logic and reasoning, just to hold true to their faith.

[brunumb]

It strikes me as amazing, that, human beings with our vast knowledge, intellect, and resources...are taking it so long to figure this stuff out.

You really overestimate human beings in that regard. The average human being doesn't even know what a quadratic equation is let alone have the ability to solve one. We have made great leaps and bounds in the last century largely due to the advances in technology that science has given us. Your expectations are unreasonable and really constitute a straw man attack based on human limitations.

Mother nature doesn't have a mind, and can't see...yet she was able to..

1. Create a universe from nothing.
2. Create life from nonliving material
3. Create consciousness in this life created life, and also giving it all sort of cool stuff such as eyeballs, skin, bones, blood, etc.

1. We do not know the origin of the universe. Saying that is was created assumes facts not in evidence.
2. All living things are constructed from the same non-living elements. We don't know how life began, but there are many hypotheses that are more credible than a magical being poofing it into existence.
3. Consciousness appears to be an emergent property of organisms with brains. Cool stuff like eyeballs, skin, bones, blood, etc. are all constructed from organic molecules which are in themselves made from the same elements found throughout the universe. No magic involved.

Now, I am certainly not expecting human beings to create universes...but at least we should be able to create life/consciousness with the scraps that we have.

Why should we be able to do that? We can do a lot more than we could a hundred years ago and way more than we could do a thousand years ago, but that doesn't mean we should be able to do everything you want now. That is a very flimsy argument to present in favour of your magical creator being.