What is special about Jesus?

[Wootah]

If we can agree that bulls and lambs are insufficient propitiations for our sins then what makes Jesus a sufficient propitiation?

Especially if you think Jesus is a created being then what makes one created being sufficient and another insufficient?

If he is a human then how did he pull it off to not sin for 33 years? Was Jesus created perfect?

[theophile]

If we can agree that bulls and lambs are insufficient propitiations for our sins then what makes Jesus a sufficient propitiation?

Especially if you think Jesus is a created being then what makes one created being sufficient and another insufficient?

Here's how I look at it:

Human beings are given charge of the earth (Genesis 1-2).
Human beings muck it all up (Genesis 3 onward).
There comes a time when God - or anyone with power really - has to seriously consider if the whole thing was a mistake, because of our sins. (Just look at the story of Noah as precedent.)

You have the same thing happening here. Which leaves two options and a deeply challenging moral decision:

1) do you just wipe the slate clean again, or
2) do you test our mettle for the job, and give us yet another chance?

Jesus' climbing of Calvary was him passing the test. Much like Abraham's climbing of Moriah. Or Job's climbing of the ash heap.

(Interesting progression across these by the way. Abraham is asked to give his son, but ultimately spared. Job has all his children taken, but is explicitly spared his life. Jesus has literally everything stripped away... It is as if to show, that as time goes on and our sins continue to multiply, the tests we must pass become harder, and the burden of proof greater, to prove our worth and keep our position in the world.)

So, to return to your question, it simply had to be a human being (versus a lamb or a bull), because we are the ones who were given the mantle of rule. That it be Jesus in particular is irrelevant. He was simply the finest among us at the time (like poor old Job). He was one with the strength and selflessness to be a redemptive light to the world (and to all who would speak against us), pinned up as he was in a cruel mockery, but also brilliant display, of his royalty and humanity.

[brunumb]

[Replying to jimtatertayte in post #4]

It's amazing how much one can embellish a story when one is so deeply invested in their belief. And none of it may actually be true.

[brunumb]

Glad to know you know what befits an omnipotent being (that kinda makes you omniscient actually!).

The omnipotent one has been created in our image but given super powers. If you can imagine what an intelligent human with super powers might do, then it's not hard to project that expectation onto this God character.

[brunumb]

So let's get this straight... Jesus is a human being, creature or God? I'm confused

Probably all three in one. Religions work in mysterious ways.

[brunumb]

His suoerioritynto animals. The value if a human is more than that of any number of animals. Being a perfect human Jesus sacrifice was more valuable to God than any animal. God deemed it sufficient to anyone for our sins.

God decides on a things intrinsic value. Everything he makes is good and perfect if it stays true to its purpose, but everything was "according to its kind".

How did he manage to live without committing a sin? His compete of God, his personal integrity and his unwavering love of goodness and truth.

Yes, Jesus was created by JEHOVAH God and everything Jehovah does is perfect.

All of that assumes facts not in evidence. The attributes of gods are decided first and then they are retrofitted into their characters and their behaviour. God/Jesus have never actually demonstrated any of the attributes given to them by human beings. When their character or behaviour appears to not fit the expectation of a god, the believer will simply make excuses for the deviation or add embellishments of their own as a whitewash.

[brunumb]

There comes a time when God - or anyone with power really - has to seriously consider if the whole thing was a mistake, because of our sins.

Hang on a minute. Your are trying to blame humans for God's mistake. God's plan was foiled by ignorant human beings? Really?

[JehovahsWitness]

When their character or behaviour appears to not fit the expectation of a god, the believer will simply make excuses for the deviation or add embellishments of their own as a whitewash.

Emphasis MINE


Are you suggesting there something in the "character or behaviour" of the God I am refering to which {to quote you back to YOU} "appears to not fit the expectation of a god" {unquote}?

• If yes, what?

• If not why did you make that statement in a response to my post?

[brunumb]

So, to return to your question, it simply had to be a human being (versus a lamb or a bull), because we are the ones who were given the mantle of rule.

The notion that any god would require a human sacrifice for whatever reason is totally abhorrent. No deity requiring the blood of a living thing is worthy of respect let alone worship.

[brunumb]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #17]

It goes with the rest of what I said. An elaboration for the casual observers of this forum.

[JehovahsWitness]

The notion that any god would require a human sacrifice for whatever reason is totally abhorrent. No deity requiring the blood of a living thing is worthy of respect let alone worship.

• Are you suggesting you (or anyone) can speak for every human on earth?

• Or are you simply sharing your subjective opinion?

• Feel free to say you are stating a FACT if you are confident you can produce verifiable proof that what you CLAIM is true.