Jehovah of the OT, is Jesus Christ of the New Testament

[Revelations won]

Jehovah of the Old Testament, is Jesus Christ of the New Testament

There are some today who do not understand or accept that Jehovah of the Old Testament is in fact Jesus Christ of the New Testament. My observation is that He is in very deed the great Jehovah, who was and is King of kings and Lord of lords, even the very Messiah, our lord and redeemer, the Holy One of Israel and the the author of our resurrection and the only name whereby man can be saved. This is my “take� on this topic. I welcome all would care to debate and provide your evidence to support contrary or opposing views. The following scriptures are presented as evidence supporting my “take� on the above subject:

Isaiah 43:3 “For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour:"

Isaiah 43:11 “I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour�

Isaiah 9:6-7 “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
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Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.


Isaiah 25:8-9 “He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

9And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.


Isaiah 26:19 “Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.�


Matthew 27:52-53 “And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.


Acts 4:10-12 “Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


Exodus 3:14 God calls himself “I AM� “3 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.�


John 8:54-58 (Before Abraham was “I AM�. 54 “Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
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Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
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Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
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Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
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Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was,
I AM.�


Exodus 6:3 “And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.�


Deuteronomy 32:2-4 “My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

3Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.

4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.�


1Corinthians 10:1-4 “Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.�


Hebrews 5:8-9 “Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;�


Psalms 118:22-24 “The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
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This is the LORD'S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.
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This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.�





Acts 4:10-12 “Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.�


John 10:1-11 “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
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But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
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To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
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And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
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And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
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This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
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Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
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All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
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I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
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The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
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I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.


Ephesians 2:18-20 “For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;


Hebrews 1:1-4 “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
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Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
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Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
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Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.�


Hebrews 2:8-11 “And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.�

John 1:1-5 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
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The same was in the beginning with God.
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All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
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In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
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And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.�


Colossians 2:8-14 “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;�

[myth-one.com]

Mankind was booted from the Garden of Eden to separate them from the Tree of Life so that they could not eat from it and live forever.

Yes, so he could not eat from it and have PHYSICAL life forever.

There is no such thing as a physical life which lasts forever!

There are physical bodies and there are spiritual bodies.

All physical bodies will die.

All spiritual bodied beings will live forever.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh -- including man.

And that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Therefore, the only way for any man to gain everlasting life is simply to be born again as a spirit.

"Ye must be born again."

It's so incredibly, in your face, simple.

[PinSeeker]

There are physical bodies and there are spiritual bodies.

No, there are people who, though physically alive, may either be spiritually dead -- the natural human condition -- or spiritually alive (born again of the Spirit). The physical and the spiritual are not mutually exclusive.

All physical bodies will die.

No doubt true. Will they die with the spirit still dead in sin or not is the question.

All spiritual bodied beings will live forever.

Well, all people that have been made spiritually alive will, yes.

And that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

No doubt true. But there are many among us who have not been born of the Spirit and are as yet still spiritually dead in their sin. Hopefully, it will be God's will that this not remain the case for them.

Therefore, the only way for any man to gain everlasting life is simply to be born again as a spirit.

Well, no, they must be made spiritually alive. This is what it means to be born again of the Spirit.

"Ye must be born again."

Yep.

It's so incredibly, in your face, simple.

Well I agree that it's not complicated, and yes, even simple. What we're talking about now is "Christianity 101." But it's not simplistic. Grace and peace to you.

[myth-one.com]

There are physical bodies and there are spiritual bodies.

No, there are people who, though physically alive, may either be spiritually dead -- the natural human condition -- or spiritually alive (born again of the Spirit). The physical and the spiritual are not mutually exclusive.

Only two body types are described in the Bible, natural or terrestrial and spiritual or celestial:

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (I Corinthians 15:44)

There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. (I Corinthians 15:40)

Celestial means heavenly or spiritual and terrestrial means natural, earthly, or physical. There are only two body types, natural and spiritual, and they are different. Natural bodies exist in the natural, earthly, or terrestrial world. Spiritual bodies live in the heavenly, godly, or celestial world.

The glory of the celestial is one and the glory of the terrestrial is another. In other words, they do not mix.

There is no hybrid being consisting of a spirit or soul living within a physical body described anywhere in the scriptures! Man is a terrestrial body, and angels are spiritual bodies.

Therefore, the only way for any man to gain everlasting life is simply to be born again as a spirit.

Well, no, they must be made spiritually alive. This is what it means to be born again of the Spirit.

You do not understand the process of being born again of the Spirit!

Each of the two body types defined in the Bible, physical and spiritual, require a separate and distinct type of birth:

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:6)

Mankind has only been born once -- of flesh as humans.

Believers have their names written in the Book of Life and will be born again of the Spirit (God) as spiritual beings into the Kingdom of God at the Second Coming.

You are presently a man or woman, not a spirit, or a human/spirit mixture!

[PinSeeker]

Myth-one, pretty much all Christians with a biblical intelligence quotient above about three know that when Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15 that "...this mortal body must put on immortality," he's not saying "...this mortal body must be exchanged for an immortal body.” That's absolutely absurd to think that. Rather, he's saying, “...this same body that is mortal now must put on immortality.” This is what it is to have a spiritual body. It's a different condition, not a different body. It's spiritual not in the sense that it's no longer physical but in the sense that it's no longer subject to decay and death to temptation and sin to sorrow and suffering. In other words, we will be just like Jesus, which is what Christianity is all about! As Paul himself says elsewhere:
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"We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life" (Romans 6:4)
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"If the Spirit of Him Who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He Who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you." (Romans 8:11)

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As John says, "we shall be like Him, because we shall see Him as He is" (1 John 3:2). Maybe one day God will pull your head out of the sand and open your eyes. He can make the blind to see, after all.

Grace and peace to you.

[myth-one.com]

Myth-one, pretty much all Christians with a biblical intelligence quotient above about three know that when Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15 that "...this mortal body must put on immortality," he's not saying "...this mortal body must be exchanged for an immortal body.” That's absolutely absurd to think that. Rather, he's saying, “...this same body that is mortal now must put on immortality.” This is what it is to have a spiritual body. It's a different condition, not a different body.

Actually, the physical bodies of deceased believers will be exchanged for spiritual bodies:

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


Yes, the act of being born again and a comparison of natural versus spiritual bodies is found in First Corinthians:

It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. (I Corinthians 15:44-50)

The first man Adam was made a living soul, or being, because he was part of the animal kingdom. That is, the first body any human has is that of a living, breathing being.

The last Adam is made a quickening spirit which lives forever. Flesh and blood, such as man, cannot inherit the Kingdom of God; thus one must be born again as a spirit.

Consider this sentence from the above verses, "Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual." The answer is that once spiritual bodies are created, it's a done deal! They cannot be terminated. They are immortal! Therefore, that which is natural comes first, a human body. That human being may or may not inherit a spiritual body based on his choice regarding Jesus. God does not desire to create more immortal rebels!

These verses also negate the myth that men are born as an immortal soul living within a physical body. It specifically states that they are separate, and come in two stages. The natural body comes first and is then followed by the spiritual body:

Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. (I Corinthians 15:46)

The natural body comes first and the spiritual body comes last. They are different and are never merged together at anytime in the scriptures! All men are born as natural or physical flesh and blood bodies, and those who believe in Jesus will be born again as spiritual bodies when Jesus returns!

[PinSeeker]

Actually, the physical bodies of deceased believers will be exchanged for spiritual bodies.

In a certain sense, yes, but we will not become invisible or intangible, but rather made new. We will be changed, for sure, but not into ghosts. God did not promise to make completely "new things" but rather to make all things new (Revelation 21:5). My goodness.

As I said, myth-one -- and you directly acknowledged -- nobody "thinks" of these things as you do. But hey, stick to your "guns."

Grace and peace to you.

[myth-one.com]

Myth-one, pretty much all Christians with a biblical intelligence quotient above about three know that when Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15 that "...this mortal body must put on immortality," he's not saying "...this mortal body must be exchanged for an immortal body.” That's absolutely absurd to think that. Rather, he's saying, “...this same body that is mortal now must put on immortality.” This is what it is to have a spiritual body. It's a different condition, not a different body.

No, a spiritual body is a spiritual body -- without any physical content such as flesh or bones!

Was it also "absurd" when Jesus Christ said the same thing as me?

Jesus was resurrected from the tomb as a flesh and bone human.

When He appeared to His disciples after being raised from the dead, they initially thought they were seeing a spirit:


But they were terrified and affrightened, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. (Luke 24:37-39)

Jesus confirms that physical bodies are different and separate from spiritual bodies.

Paul did also.

Regarding the deceased buried physical body of Christians, Paul wrote:


It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body... (I Corinthians 15:44)


It is not raised as a spirit living in a physical body.

I'll have to agree with Jesus and Paul!

[PinSeeker]

Okay, so, we've talked about what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15, and I'm well aware of your misreading of that, but I'm glad you point out what Jesus said in Luke 24 here. Take a look at what Jesus said, particularly in Luke 24:39. This is after His resurrection, of course -- after He had been raised, in Paul's terms, a spiritual body. He says to the two men on the road to Emmaus:

• "See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."

Obviously, the resurrected body -- spiritual as it is -- is a physical thing; one cannot see or feel or touch something that is not physical and tangible. And then, of course, Jesus states very plainly that He is not a spirit, or a ghost or apparition of some kind. As Jesus Himself verifies verbally and shows of Himself, your statement that "a spiritual body is a spiritual body -- without any physical content such as flesh or bones" is not true at all.

We see that here in Luke 24, and we see it in John 20, too, where He tells:

• Mary Magdalene not to cling to Him -- one cannot cling to something not physical

• His disciples, showing them His hands and His side -- one cannot show anyone his hands or side if his hands and side are not physical

• and finally Thomas the same thing, where He actually says, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side" -- again, one cannot show anyone his hands or side, much less allow them to actually touch them, if his hands and side are not physical

In all this and because of all this, it is as obvious as the nose on one's face that the resurrected body is as physical as physical can be, but takes on a spiritual quality that it did not possess before. Again, it's a different condition of the physical body, not a different and non-physical body altogether. Again, your statement that "a spiritual body is a spiritual body without any physical content such as flesh or bones" cannot possibly be true.

So, in short, I know you want to agree with Jesus and Paul, and I'm very glad of that. But actually doing it is a different thing, and I would implore you to do it. But in order to do that, you have to understand them correctly, and to this point, it is obvious -- painfully obvious -- that you have yet to do that.

Grace and peace to you.

[myth-one.com]

Okay, so, we've talked about what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15, and I'm well aware of your misreading of that, but I'm glad you point out what Jesus said in Luke 24 here. Take a look at what Jesus said, particularly in Luke 24:39. This is after His resurrection, of course -- after He had been raised, in Paul's terms, a spiritual body.

Paul never said Jesus was raised as a spiritual body.

Obviously, the resurrected body -- spiritual as it is -- is a physical thing; one cannot see or feel or touch something that is not physical and tangible.

Just because you cannot imagine a spiritual body, does not mean it does not exist!

. . . there is a spiritual body. (I Corinthians 15:44)

Jesus confirmed that spirits do not have physical bones or flesh:

. . . for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. (Luke 24:37-39)

Flesh and blood physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God:

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God;... (I Corinthians 15:50)

So if you insist on retaining your physical body, you cannot inherit the Kingdom of God!

There are two body types, physical and spiritual and they are different!

Each of these body types requires a different birth:

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:6)

In Summary:


The scriptures state that man must be born again to enter the Kingdom of God. What type of birth must this be? There are only two body types, physical and spiritual, and man is born initially as a physical flesh and blood body. But flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God! Therefore, for man to enter the Kingdom of God he must abandon his physical body and be born again as the only remaining body type, a spiritual body!

It is so logically simple! Man must be born again as a spirit to enter the spiritual Kingdom of God!

The Bible never states that men are born of the flesh and the spirit combined, nor does it state that men are born of the flesh and the soul combined! Anything born of the flesh is flesh. Man is flesh! Anything born of the Spirit is spirit.

The product of any birth is identical to the type of birth which created that product. Flesh births produce flesh bodies. Spiritual births produce spiritual bodies.

Man, under Satan's influence, has great difficulty accepting this logically simple truth!

[PinSeeker]

Paul never said Jesus was raised as a spiritual body.

He said that we, just like Jesus, would be raised physically and our bodies would be spiritual.

. . . there is a spiritual body.

Most certainly, and it is very much physical.

Jesus confirmed that spirits do not have physical bones or flesh...

LOL! Jesus, after His undeniably physical resurrection, confirmed that he was not a spirit -- a ghost or apparition; that's what the two men on the road to Emmaus obviously thought, that they were seeing a ghost, because they knew Jesus had been crucified/executed -- precisely evidenced by the fact that He had bones and flesh. Wow. Just... wow.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:6)

Absolutely true, but not in the wooden, ridiculous, contrary-to-the-rest-of-the-bible sense that you understand it. That which is born of man and thus of sin and thus sinful and remains in this state cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Only that which is born of the Spirit and thus not of sin and thus fully justified because of imputed righteousness -- the righteousness of Christ, imputed by God the Father -- can inherit the kingdom of God.

How you can cling to your views on this, much less possessing them, is quite astounding. It's much like looking at a sparrow flying in the sky and thinking it's a humpback whale. I'm out, my friend. Grace and peace to you.