The kingdom of God.

[Checkpoint]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

[Checkpoint]

I have now edited my last post to onewithhim to clarify who writes what.

Thanks but I still cannot see. Do you mind answering the question again for me?

- When Jesus returns will he destroy **ALL** human govenments?

JW

Yes.

Is that not included in Revelation 11:15-18?

[JehovahsWitness]

- When Jesus returns will he destroy **ALL** human govenments?

Yes

Okay so....


[ we are presently in the LAST DAYS. Satan's world exists under his rule and wicked people around: people are suffering. ]===> JESUS RETURNS: destroys the goats / destroys ALL human govenments -----> [JESUS' PEACEFUL RULE ]


#1 Is that right so far? Are there any major events missing above between our present time now and the beginning of Christ's PEACEFUL RULE?

#2

where is Satan during this peaceful rule?

Is it "a peaceful rule" with Satan and the demons attacking the sheep, plaguing them with illnesses like Job and killing their children with like he did to Job's?






JW

[Checkpoint]

- When Jesus returns will he destroy **ALL** human govenments?

Yes

Okay so....


[ we are presently in the LAST DAYS. Satan's world exists under his rule and wicked people around: people are suffering. ]===> JESUS RETURNS: destroys the goats / destroys ALL human govenments -----> [JESUS' PEACEFUL RULE ]


#1 Is that right so far? Are there any major events missing above between our present time now and the beginning of Christ's PEACEFUL RULE?

#2

where is Satan during this peaceful rule?

Is it "a peaceful rule" with Satan and the demons attacking the sheep, plaguing them with illnesses like Job and killing their children with like he did to Job's?

JW

I cannot answer questions that use terms I do not use and am unfamiliar with.

So, what do you mean exactly, by "peaceful rule"?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #875]

Revelation 21 has to describe the Paradise Earth, because that is what exists after Armageddon. Jesus' destruction of all human governments has already happened and the earth is saved from those that were ruining it, so how could chapter 21 be anything BUT the paradise earth? Isn't "the new order" synonymous with the paradise earth?

I agree that this present age is "the preface to Paradise." The age ends after Armageddon and begins with Christ's Millennial Reign. That is my understanding. Could you please re-state your understanding so that my pea-brain can get it? I can't, at the moment, see how you disagree with what our understanding is.

This will be very brief , as time has run out. But it may help a little.

1. See my last post to JW.

2. All governments destroyed at his coming? Yes.

Therefore no undestroyed governments in the thousand years? No.

Warring nations do not appear out of nothing. They clearly exist during that time. See verses 3,7-9. Each nation has a government.

You have two opposite conclusions in your #2. You agree that all governments are destroyed at Jesus' coming, yet next you say No to "therefore no undestroyed governments in the thousand years." Which is it? You seem to be going more for the idea that there will still be governments of men during the Millennial Reign. That doesn't make sense. What is Armageddon for if not to rid the earth of evil---and that includes the corrupt governments of men? Where the millennial reign is concerned, reference to "nations" does not refer to governments. "Nations" during the thousand years refers only to the people that would ordinarily make up nations.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #875]

onewithhim posted:

Revelation 21 has to describe the Paradise Earth, because that is what exists after Armageddon. Jesus' destruction of all human governments has already happened and the earth is saved from those that were ruining it, so how could chapter 21 be anything BUT the paradise earth? Isn't "the new order" synonymous with the paradise earth?

I agree that this present age is "the preface to Paradise." The age ends after Armageddon and begins with Christ's Millennial Reign. That is my understanding. Could you please re-state your understanding so that my pea-brain can get it? I can't, at the moment, see how you disagree with what our understanding is.

This will be very brief , as time has run out. But it may help a little.

1. See my last post to JW.

2. All governments destroyed at his coming? Yes.

Therefore no undestroyed governments in the thousand years? No.

Warring nations do not appear out of nothing. They clearly exist during that time. See verses 3,7-9. Each nation has a government.

You have two opposite conclusions in your #2. You agree that all governments are destroyed at Jesus' coming, yet next you say No to "therefore no undestroyed governments in the thousand years." Which is it? You seem to be going more for the idea that there will still be governments of men during the Millennial Reign. That doesn't make sense. What is Armageddon for if not to rid the earth of evil---and that includes the corrupt governments of men? Where the millennial reign is concerned, reference to "nations" does not refer to governments. "Nations" during the thousand years refers only to the people that would ordinarily make up nations.

What I wrote in my 2. was not a contradiction of myself, but an indication that your understanding of what you call "the Millennial Reign" does not necessarily make sense to me.


Consider nations, kingdoms, and governments.

Every nation comprises people, yes. As does every kingdom. Those people live within an area that has boundaries. And each nation or people has (not is) some form of its own government, to run its affairs and to protect its borders.

Is Armageddon for something, really? To rd tje earth of evil?

Nope. That is what the last Judgment is for, to exit eveil so that righteousness is all there is, making its home in/on the new heaven and the new earth.

Oh happy days! Be there, in that throng, worshiping our great God, singing His praises, and doing His will.

[JehovahsWitness]

I cannot answer questions that use terms I do not use and am unfamiliar with.

So, what do you mean exactly, by "peaceful rule"?

I mean ...

This peaceful rule will last forever. Revelation 11:15; 22:3-5.

[JehovahsWitness]

You seem to be going more for the idea that there will still be governments of men during the Millennial Reign. That doesn't make sense. What is Armageddon for if not to rid the earth of evil---and that includes the corrupt governments of men? Where the millennial reign is concerned, reference to "nations" does not refer to governments. "Nations" during the thousand years refers only to the people that would ordinarily make up nations.

I suspect Onewithim that Checkpoint believes that Jesus return leaves some EVIL elements ( demons? Satan ? wicked people*? who knows....) on earth. From what I can see Checkpoint has never said that the destruction that marks Jesus return marks the destruction of ALL wicked people. I doubt if Checkpoint thinks Armageddon and the destruction of the goats are one and the same event.

I have been trying to get a picture of who will be on earth after Christ's return but its a long slow process which involves taking large vague posts with sweeping statements and disecting them sentence by sentence to try and find the point.



JW

[Checkpoint]

You seem to be going more for the idea that there will still be governments of men during the Millennial Reign. That doesn't make sense. What is Armageddon for if not to rid the earth of evil---and that includes the corrupt governments of men? Where the millennial reign is concerned, reference to "nations" does not refer to governments. "Nations" during the thousand years refers only to the people that would ordinarily make up nations.

I suspect Onewithim that Checkpoint believes that Jesus return leaves some EVIL elements ( demons? Satan ? wicked people*? who knows....) on earth. From what I can see Checkpoint has never said that the destruction that marks Jesus return marks the destruction of ALL wicked people. I doubt if Checkpoint thinks Armageddon and the destruction of the goats are one and the same event.

I have been trying to get a picture of who will be on earth after Christ's return but its a long slow process which involves taking large vague posts with sweeping statements and disecting them sentence by sentence to try and find the point.

JW

Checkpoint is unclear and/or inconsistent?

Well now, just for starters, look again at my post 881.

The passage cited has within it my position on what happens, and its results, when Jesus returns.

Not before then, and not at some later time. But at the last trumpet, on the last day.

Not just the end of all human governments, but the end of all who are not believers, including Satan and his followers.

That is what is clearly stated in the sheep and goats Judgment parable, and is the obvious result of what is portrayed near the end of Revelation 11.

Is that clear and specific enough for you two, and is it unequivocal enough for both of you?

[JehovahsWitness]

You seem to be going more for the idea that there will still be governments of men during the Millennial Reign. That doesn't make sense. What is Armageddon for if not to rid the earth of evil---and that includes the corrupt governments of men? Where the millennial reign is concerned, reference to "nations" does not refer to governments. "Nations" during the thousand years refers only to the people that would ordinarily make up nations.

I suspect Onewithim that Checkpoint believes that Jesus return leaves some EVIL elements ( demons? Satan ? wicked people*? who knows....) on earth. From what I can see Checkpoint has never said that the destruction that marks Jesus return marks the destruction of ALL wicked people. I doubt if Checkpoint thinks Armageddon and the destruction of the goats are one and the same event.

I have been trying to get a picture of who will be on earth after Christ's return but its a long slow process which involves taking large vague posts with sweeping statements and disecting them sentence by sentence to try and find the point.

JW

Checkpoint is unclear and/or inconsistent?

Well now, just for starters, look again at my post 881.

The passage cited has within it my position on what happens, and its results, when Jesus returns.

Not before then, and not at some later time. But at the last trumpet, on the last day.

Not just the end of all human governments, but the end of all who are not believers, including Satan and his followers.

That is what is clearly stated in the sheep and goats Judgment parable, and is the obvious result of what is portrayed near the end of Revelation 11.

Is that clear and specific enough for you two, and is it unequivocal enough for both of you?

Thanks for the clarification, much appreciated. My questions are as follows...


....when Jesus RETURNS

a) does he destroy **all** wicked people?
b) And what does Jesus do with Satan and the demons when he returns?





JW

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #889]

Checkpoint wrote:

Checkpoint is unclear and/or inconsistent?

Well now, just for starters, look again at my post 881.

The passage cited has within it my position on what happens, and its results, when Jesus returns.

Not before then, and not at some later time. But at the last trumpet, on the last day.

Not just the end of all human governments, but the end of all who are not believers, including Satan and his followers.

That is what is clearly stated in the sheep and goats Judgment parable, and is the obvious result of what is portrayed near the end of Revelation 11.

Is that clear and specific enough for you two, and is it unequivocal enough for both of you?

Thanks for the clarification, much appreciated. My questions are as follows...


....when Jesus RETURNS

a) does he destroy **all** wicked people?
b) And what does Jesus do with Satan and the demons when he returns?

JW

My answers are:

a) Yes.
b) According to Scripture, this:

Matthew 25:41:
Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Romans 16:20:
The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.

Revelation 20:10:
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Th