Jesus Versus Geology

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unknown soldier
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Jesus Versus Geology

Post #1

Post by unknown soldier »

How can Jesus be divine if he can't get his facts straight? He evidently knew less than many of us today know. For example, Matthew 24:37-39 (NRSV) tells us:
For as the days of Noah were, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day Noah entered the ark, and they knew nothing until the flood came and swept them all away, so too will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Sorry, Mr. Jesus, but we have no evidence that the Noachian flood in Genesis ever happened. Today geologists know better than to believe such fables. You are ignorant of that fact. How can you know how to grant people eternal life when you don't know the basics of the world you presumably created?

Anyway, while I wait for the apologists here to try to slip out of this sticky wicket, let me offer some lubricant of my own to help them. First, we can always interpret figuratively what Jesus said about the flood. A literal interpretation will result in seeing an error in the Bible, and to avoid that unacceptable conclusion we can say that Noah and the flood Jesus spoke of are metaphors.

Another way out is to insist that Jesus was right and that there was a historical Noah and a worldwide flood. Apologists can get busy writing books about how wrong geologists are.

Finally, we might even admit that Jesus was wrong, but he had good reason to be wrong. When he came down to the earth from heaven, he had to leave behind some of that omniscience. God couldn't manage to stuff all the knowledge of the cosmos into that little human head! Jesus could manage to save the world without knowing his geology, so such knowledge was dispensed with as unimportant for the duration of his time on earth. Not to worry, though, because Jesus remembered all he forgot on earth when he got back to heaven.

Obviously, most people won't buy these arguments, but these apologetics should be helpful in keeping the faithful assured that Jesus, as God on earth, fulfilled his mission perfectly!

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Re: Jesus Versus Geology

Post #41

Post by Miles »

1213 wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:46 am
brunumb wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:14 pm That is included in what I said. It has been known for over a century that the biblical flood did not and could not have happened. Creationist scenarios are comical and desperate attempts to prop up their beliefs in the face of contradictory evidence.
You are mixing belief with knowing. There is no proof or evidence that the flood did not happen. And it is actually comical, if someone who claims to be scientific, claims otherwise.
Just so you're aware, When person A says "X happened," anyone, say person B, taking a negative position:" X did not happen," bears absolutely no burden (responsibility) in "proving" his position. However, person A in asserting the positive position, "X did happen", does bear the "burden of proof."

For instance. Just because I assert that flying unicorns are real, doesn't in anyway obligate you to "prove" they don't. The only obligation, burden of proof, lies on my shoulders. It's up to me to "prove" that flying unicorns are real, and not up to you to "prove" they are not. In the same way it's not up to anyone to "prove" your assertion that, "the flood happened" is false, but up to you to "prove" that it's true.

And so far you haven't presented any convincing evidence that it is.


.

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Re: Jesus Versus Geology

Post #42

Post by EarthScienceguy »

[Replying to unknown soldier in post #0]
Sorry, Mr. Jesus, but we have no evidence that the Noachian flood in Genesis ever happened. Today geologists know better than to believe such fables. You are ignorant of that fact. How can you know how to grant people eternal life when you don't know the basics of the world you presumably created?
As usual with people who make comments like this. They are accusations high and fact poor.

Here are some FACTS for you.

At the bottom of the lower mantle, there were detected tectonic plates. These plates were discovered to be 3-4 thousand degrees cooler than the mantle material around it. In fact, that is how it was discovered because of the density differences between the hot mantle rock and the cooler tectonic plate rock. Current plate tectonic theory predicts that it should take about 100 million years for a tectonic plate to reach the bottom of the mantle. But if that were the case then thermal equilibrium would have had to had been reached long ago but it was not. These plates and others could not have been sinking for millions of years or even a million years. They had to have been sinking for only a few thousand years.
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... te_motions

Flood geology predicts that these plates are on the bottom of the mantle because of catastrophic plate tectonics.



The second line of evidence is the rapid reversal of the magnetic field which was caused by the flood.

https://astronomynow.com/2018/08/28/sur ... -to-earth/

This rapid reversal of the magnetic field was predicted by flood geology.


Flood geology also has made numerous predictions that have been confirmed.

PREDICTION: Soil in "erosion" channels on Mars will contain traces of earthlike soluble compounds, such as salt, from Earths preflood subterranean chambers. Soil far from "erosion" channels will not. (This prediction was first published in April 2001. Salt was first discovered on Mars in March 2004.93 )

PREDICTION: Asteroids are rock piles, often with internal ice acting as a weak glue.9 Large rocks that began the capture process are near the centers of asteroids and comets.

Four years after publishing this prediction in 2001 (In the Beginning, 7th edition, page 220), measurements of the largest asteroid, Ceres, found that it does indeed have a dense, rocky core and a mantle primarily of water-ice.10

On 23 January 2014, it was announced that two jets of water vapor were discovered escaping from Ceres at a combined rate of 13 pounds per second.

PREDICTION: Most of the rocks (pebble-size and larger) comprising asteroids and comets will be found to be rounded to some degree. (This rounding occurred as the rocks tumbled and were eroded in the powerful fountains of the great deep, just as rocks are tumbled and rounded in fast-flowing streams.)

The European Space Administration announced on 18 December 2014 that huge, rounded boulders1 to 3 meters in diameterare stacked "layer upon layer" "all over" Comet 67P. [See Figure 8 on page 358.] They jokingly call them dinosaur eggs, and believe they could be the basic building blocks that clumped together to form" comets.11

PREDICTION: A deep, penetrating impact on a large asteroid, such as Ceres, will release vast volumes of water vapor. (This prediction has now been confirmed.9 See Figure 12.)

PREDICTION: Beneath major mountains are large volumes of pooled saltwater. (Recent discoveries support this prediction, first published in 1980. Supercritical saltwater appears to be below the Tibetan Plateau, which is bounded on the south by the largest mountain range on Earth.)83

PREDICTION: The crystalline rock under Gibraltar, the Bosporus and Dardanelles, and the Golden Gate Bridge will be found to be eroded into V-shaped notches. (This prediction, first published in 1995, was confirmed for the Bosporus and Dardanelles in 1998103 and for Gibraltar in 2009104 and 2018.105)

PREDICTION: By 2020, satellites in low-Earth orbits will predict the locations of major earthquakes several days before the quakes. The satellites will measure electrical changes in the ionosphere that are produced by piezoelectric voltages building up in stressed rock around the focus of the coming earthquake. If the focus is above the crossover depth (220 miles below Earths surface), upward escaping magma may also produce detectable heat around the epicenter days before the quake. [See "What Causes Earthquakes, and Can They Be Predicted?" on page173.] https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/12 ... arthquakes


The flood was a very violent event that wiped out all land-living creatures. In fact, 90% of all life was wiped out during the flood.

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Re: Jesus Versus Geology

Post #43

Post by unknown soldier »

EarthScienceguy wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:23 pm [Replying to unknown soldier in post #0]
Sorry, Mr. Jesus, but we have no evidence that the Noachian flood in Genesis ever happened. Today geologists know better than to believe such fables. You are ignorant of that fact. How can you know how to grant people eternal life when you don't know the basics of the world you presumably created?
As usual with people who make comments like this. They are accusations high and fact poor.

Here are some FACTS for you.

At the bottom of the lower mantle, there were detected tectonic plates. These plates were discovered to be 3-4 thousand degrees cooler than the mantle material around it. In fact, that is how it was discovered because of the density differences between the hot mantle rock and the cooler tectonic plate rock. Current plate tectonic theory predicts that it should take about 100 million years for a tectonic plate to reach the bottom of the mantle. But if that were the case then thermal equilibrium would have had to had been reached long ago but it was not. These plates and others could not have been sinking for millions of years or even a million years. They had to have been sinking for only a few thousand years.
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... te_motions

Flood geology predicts that these plates are on the bottom of the mantle because of catastrophic plate tectonics.



The second line of evidence is the rapid reversal of the magnetic field which was caused by the flood.

https://astronomynow.com/2018/08/28/sur ... -to-earth/

This rapid reversal of the magnetic field was predicted by flood geology.


Flood geology also has made numerous predictions that have been confirmed.

PREDICTION: Soil in "erosion" channels on Mars will contain traces of earthlike soluble compounds, such as salt, from Earths preflood subterranean chambers. Soil far from "erosion" channels will not. (This prediction was first published in April 2001. Salt was first discovered on Mars in March 2004.93 )

PREDICTION: Asteroids are rock piles, often with internal ice acting as a weak glue.9 Large rocks that began the capture process are near the centers of asteroids and comets.

Four years after publishing this prediction in 2001 (In the Beginning, 7th edition, page 220), measurements of the largest asteroid, Ceres, found that it does indeed have a dense, rocky core and a mantle primarily of water-ice.10

On 23 January 2014, it was announced that two jets of water vapor were discovered escaping from Ceres at a combined rate of 13 pounds per second.

PREDICTION: Most of the rocks (pebble-size and larger) comprising asteroids and comets will be found to be rounded to some degree. (This rounding occurred as the rocks tumbled and were eroded in the powerful fountains of the great deep, just as rocks are tumbled and rounded in fast-flowing streams.)

The European Space Administration announced on 18 December 2014 that huge, rounded boulders1 to 3 meters in diameterare stacked "layer upon layer" "all over" Comet 67P. [See Figure 8 on page 358.] They jokingly call them dinosaur eggs, and believe they could be the basic building blocks that clumped together to form" comets.11

PREDICTION: A deep, penetrating impact on a large asteroid, such as Ceres, will release vast volumes of water vapor. (This prediction has now been confirmed.9 See Figure 12.)

PREDICTION: Beneath major mountains are large volumes of pooled saltwater. (Recent discoveries support this prediction, first published in 1980. Supercritical saltwater appears to be below the Tibetan Plateau, which is bounded on the south by the largest mountain range on Earth.)83

PREDICTION: The crystalline rock under Gibraltar, the Bosporus and Dardanelles, and the Golden Gate Bridge will be found to be eroded into V-shaped notches. (This prediction, first published in 1995, was confirmed for the Bosporus and Dardanelles in 1998103 and for Gibraltar in 2009104 and 2018.105)

PREDICTION: By 2020, satellites in low-Earth orbits will predict the locations of major earthquakes several days before the quakes. The satellites will measure electrical changes in the ionosphere that are produced by piezoelectric voltages building up in stressed rock around the focus of the coming earthquake. If the focus is above the crossover depth (220 miles below Earths surface), upward escaping magma may also produce detectable heat around the epicenter days before the quake. [See "What Causes Earthquakes, and Can They Be Predicted?" on page173.] https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/12 ... arthquakes


The flood was a very violent event that wiped out all land-living creatures. In fact, 90% of all life was wiped out during the flood.
Can you tell me when the Noachian flood happened? Answers in Genesis gives the year as 2348 BC. Is that correct?

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Re: Jesus Versus Geology

Post #44

Post by brunumb »

EarthScienceguy wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:23 pm These plates and others could not have been sinking for millions of years or even a million years. They had to have been sinking for only a few thousand years.
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... te_motions
I don't know what point you are trying to make, but the article you provided the link for certainly does not support a young Earth. You should read it without wearing Bible glasses.
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Re: Jesus Versus Geology

Post #45

Post by brunumb »

EarthScienceguy wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:23 pm The second line of evidence is the rapid reversal of the magnetic field which was caused by the flood.

https://astronomynow.com/2018/08/28/sur ... -to-earth/

This rapid reversal of the magnetic field was predicted by flood geology.
Nothing in that article even remotely suggests that magnetic field reversal was associated with any flood. There have been a number of pole reversals but only one alleged flood. Hmmm. The article also does not support a young Earth.
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Re: Jesus Versus Geology

Post #46

Post by brunumb »

[Replying to EarthScienceguy in post #42]

How on earth do any of your so-called predictions have any bearing on there being a global flood as described in the Bible? Mars, Ceres, asteroids..... really? Talk about stretching the credibility band well beyond breaking point.
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Re: Jesus Versus Geology

Post #47

Post by EarthScienceguy »

[Replying to unknown soldier in post #43]
Can you tell me when the Noachian flood happened? Answers in Genesis gives the year as 2348 BC. Is that correct?

I would agree with that.

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Re: Jesus Versus Geology

Post #48

Post by EarthScienceguy »

[Replying to brunumb in post #44]
I don't know what point you are trying to make, but the article you provided the link for certainly does not support a young Earth. You should read it without wearing Bible glasses.
Excuse me for not remembering that I am not dealing with individuals that cannot understand the difference between fact and inference.

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Re: Jesus Versus Geology

Post #49

Post by EarthScienceguy »

[Replying to brunumb in post #45]
Nothing in that article even remotely suggests that magnetic field reversal was associated with any flood. There have been a number of pole reversals but only one alleged flood. Hmmm. The article also does not support a young Earth.
Again look for the facts, not the inferences. I will give you this one. The FACT is that rapid magnetic reversals are a reality. The only plausible mechanism for this rapid reversal comes from flood geology.

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Re: Jesus Versus Geology

Post #50

Post by EarthScienceguy »

[Replying to brunumb in post #46]
How on earth do any of your so-called predictions have any bearing on there being a global flood as described in the Bible? Mars, Ceres, asteroids..... really? Talk about stretching the credibility band well beyond breaking point.
All of these predictions that were proven correct come from flood geology and mechanisms. Predictions are what make hypotheses theories. So in reality we can call this flood theory because it has made successful predictions.

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