Apologetics & Illness

[Paul of Tarsus]

Unless you live under a rock, then you're all aware that illness is a big factor in our lives. Even if you're very lucky and live free of illness, you probably know somebody who struggles with sickness. How can illness be explained within the context of Christianity? Why would a God allow sickness?

As far as I know, neither Jesus nor any of his apostles were ever said to be sick. None of them are described as blind, deaf, or lame. They did believe that various infirmities are caused by demons, and the cure was to cast the demons out. According to the gospel, these healing activities attracted great multitudes of people seeking delivery from their afflictions. So obviously illness was a major factor in the lives of those who were contemporaneous with Jesus.

One thing I've noticed about sickness is that it does not discriminate based on faith. It doesn't care what your beliefs are. That's why, for example, people gathering to worship is strongly discouraged due to the risk of Covid 19.

[brunumb]

Even more significant is the question of exactly how he can eliminate evil without compromising our free will.

I doubt if you ever have or ever will provide a clear definition of what free will actually is. In the absence of such a definition, far from being significant question it is in fact meaningless.

In that case perhaps you can explain exactly how Jesus will eliminate evil this time around when he failed to do so during his first visit.

[brunumb]

People of faith accept the bible accounts of Jesus' extraordinary powers as evidence he was indeed the promisesd Messiah, the Son of the Almighty. Thus we believe his promise to return in kingdom power.

What one believes does not necessarily correspond with what is true. A willingness to accept things on faith is what allows the gullible to be manipulated and controlled.

[Compassionist]

People of faith accept the bible accounts of Jesus' extraordinary powers as evidence he was indeed the promisesd Messiah, the Son of the Almighty. Thus we believe his promise to return in kingdom power.

What one believes does not necessarily correspond with what is true. A willingness to accept things on faith is what allows the gullible to be manipulated and controlled.

I totally agree.

[nobspeople]

People of faith accept the bible accounts of Jesus' extraordinary powers as evidence he was indeed the promisesd Messiah, the Son of the Almighty. Thus we believe his promise to return in kingdom power.

What one believes does not necessarily correspond with what is true. A willingness to accept things on faith is what allows the gullible to be manipulated and controlled.

Agreed. That said, people believe in all sorts of things, true or not. So long as they say 'believe' instead of 'know', don't look down on others for not agreeing with them and don't try to force others in to their belief, I, personally, don't much care about what they believe, even if it's detrimental to themselves.

[Paul of Tarsus]

The explanation is that we evolved in a reality which does not care about us. That's why 99.9% of all the species to evolve so far on Earth are already extinct. Out of the 102.2 billion humans who have been born so far on Earth, only 7.8 billion are still alive - 94.4 billion humans have already died and the rest will die, too.

Evolution explains change, but I'm not sure if it explains death. The traditional Christian explanation for death is that we forfeited our assurance for eternal life as a result of disobedience. Our fate, then, is death.

"He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.” Illnesses are not caused by demons. Christians don't miraculously become fluent in other languages without having to learn them like the non-Christians. They are certainly not immune to deadly poison. There are 2,173,180,000 Christians on Earth currently. If they were to drink deadly poison and be unharmed that would be a great demonstration of the claims of the Bible but I guarantee that they will die if they were to drink a lethal dose of poison.

Christians are indeed vulnerable to death. It is questionable if the passage you quoted from Mark 16 was originally in Mark, and therefore the belief in snake handling and poison drinking would not be canonical.

This is because the Bible is false and unethical. Faith healings are scams. Please see Given God's many atrocities, the Biblical God is evil (imaginary or real). Please see https://www.evilbible.com and http://skepticsannotatedbible.com Thank you.

It is very possible to do evil in Christ's name. Jesus never denied that.

[nobspeople]

[Replying to Paul of Tarsus in post #56]

Evolution explains change, but I'm not sure if it explains death.

I don't believe, or have seen any evidence, that it does personally.
But what is death? Is it 'the end' or is it another step? Or something else? I guess we'd have to define death to determine how it plays in to everything we know.

The traditional Christian explanation for death is that we forfeited our assurance for eternal life as a result of disobedience.

I get that, except for the 'we' part, assuming the 'we' means humankind, but I don't ever remember being offered an option (other than the Christian option of 'follow God or else', which I find rather uninspired). I've always found the concept of inherited sin illogical for what it is, but totally necessary for order within a religious group or organization (better to have all your bases covered than to have to go back in one's genealogy and determine who is and isn't a sinner after all). But a necessity doesn't mean it makes sense.

It is questionable if the passage you quoted from Mark 16 was originally in Mark, and therefore the belief in snake handling and poison drinking would not be canonical.

Who's questioning it? And if it's questionable, why is it still being printed in some versions? Seems to me if there was a legitimate concern, it would be removed as it's best to error on the side of caution when eternal souls are at risk.

[Compassionist]

The explanation is that we evolved in a reality which does not care about us. That's why 99.9% of all the species to evolve so far on Earth are already extinct. Out of the 102.2 billion humans who have been born so far on Earth, only 7.8 billion are still alive - 94.4 billion humans have already died and the rest will die, too.

Evolution explains change, but I'm not sure if it explains death. The traditional Christian explanation for death is that we forfeited our assurance for eternal life as a result of disobedience. Our fate, then, is death.

"He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.” Illnesses are not caused by demons. Christians don't miraculously become fluent in other languages without having to learn them like the non-Christians. They are certainly not immune to deadly poison. There are 2,173,180,000 Christians on Earth currently. If they were to drink deadly poison and be unharmed that would be a great demonstration of the claims of the Bible but I guarantee that they will die if they were to drink a lethal dose of poison.

Christians are indeed vulnerable to death. It is questionable if the passage you quoted from Mark 16 was originally in Mark, and therefore the belief in snake handling and poison drinking would not be canonical.

This is because the Bible is false and unethical. Faith healings are scams. Please see Given God's many atrocities, the Biblical God is evil (imaginary or real). Please see https://www.evilbible.com and http://skepticsannotatedbible.com Thank you.

It is very possible to do evil in Christ's name. Jesus never denied that.

I am not convinced that the Bible is true and ethical. In fact, I am convinced that it is false and unethical. For the sake of the debate, if we assume that the Bible is true and humans die as a result of the disobedience of Adam and Eve, how is that ethical? Punishing Adam and Eve for disobeying God has some justification - although, if God had made Adam and Eve all-knowing and all-powerful, they would not have fallen for the deception by Satan. So, God is a flawed creator, to say the least. How is it ethical to punish all humans for the mistakes of Adam and Eve? I never asked to be conceived. I wish I were never conceived into this horrific and unjust world full of suffering, unfairness and deaths. Also, why punish all the other living things for the mistakes of Adam and Eve? That is totally atrocious. Hence, God is evil (imaginary or real).

[SeekerofTruth]

[Replying to Paul of Tarsus in post #1]

Firstly, is God omnipotent? I will answer a question with a question. Do you have a television remote? You can physically get up to change the channel if you want. However, a device was made available to adjust your will from afar. We were created to do God’s will. We are the hands and feet of Christ. We will share in the inheritance because we, the Church, are the physical embodiment of God of Earth.

Secondly, sickness is a result of imbalance. The Bible teaches us what to eat and how to live to sustain balance. It is an improper diet, stress and self abuse that prevents the body from repairing itself. Unclean spirits can manifest in a body that is out of balance. All creation is in concert. He started procreation in a way that eliminates the “weak” (genetically inferior) and promotes the strong. Man’s independence of God’s plan caused the same effect as when your cells no longer serve the body. They become rogue, reproducing and feeding out of control creating a toxic environment for the rest of the organism. Man has become to this planet what cancer is to the body. Can God bring a scalpel and cut away the undesirable? Yes, but what if you are the undesirable? He injected a cure that is slowly washing over His creation so that those cells that wish healing may be restored.

Thirdly, the word “evil” brought into question translates to many things. Perhaps in context “adversity” or “calamity” or “displeasure” could be utilized. The contrast of “peace” (rest and balance) is “adversity”. Adversity is what separates the weak from the strong to restore balance, bringing once again peace.

[Compassionist]

[Replying to Paul of Tarsus in post #1]

Firstly, is God omnipotent? I will answer a question with a question. Do you have a television remote? You can physically get up to change the channel if you want. However, a device was made available to adjust your will from afar. We were created to do God’s will. We are the hands and feet of Christ. We will share in the inheritance because we, the Church, are the physical embodiment of God of Earth.

Secondly, sickness is a result of imbalance. The Bible teaches us what to eat and how to live to sustain balance. It is an improper diet, stress and self abuse that prevents the body from repairing itself. Unclean spirits can manifest in a body that is out of balance. All creation is in concert. He started procreation in a way that eliminates the “weak” (genetically inferior) and promotes the strong. Man’s independence of God’s plan caused the same effect as when your cells no longer serve the body. They become rogue, reproducing and feeding out of control creating a toxic environment for the rest of the organism. Man has become to this planet what cancer is to the body. Can God bring a scalpel and cut away the undesirable? Yes, but what if you are the undesirable? He injected a cure that is slowly washing over His creation so that those cells that wish healing may be restored.

Thirdly, the word “evil” brought into question translates to many things. Perhaps in context “adversity” or “calamity” or “displeasure” could be utilized. The contrast of “peace” (rest and balance) is “adversity”. Adversity is what separates the weak from the strong to restore balance, bringing once again peace.

You have made a lot of claims about reality. Please provide evidence to prove your claims. Thank you.

[SeekerofTruth]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #60]

Which specifically do you require proof of? Everything in the body works to achieve homeostasis (balance). I could expand exhaustively on this alone. The word evil is translated in Strongs words;

Strong's Number
H7451
Original Word
רעה רע
Transliterated Word
ra‛ râ‛âh
Phonetic Spelling
{rah} raw-aw'
Strong's Definition
From H7489; bad or (as noun) evil (naturally or morally). This includes the second (feminine) form; as adjective or noun: - {adversity} {affliction} {bad} {calamity} + displease ({-ure}) {distress} evil ({[-favouredness]} {man} {thing}) + {exceedingly} X {great} grief ({-vous}) {harm} {heavy} hurt ({-ful}) ill ({favoured}) + {mark} {mischief} ({-vous}) {misery} naught ({-ty}) {noisome} + not {please} sad ({-ly}) {sore} {sorrow} {trouble} {vex} wicked ({-ly} {-ness} {one}) worse (-st) {wretchedness} wrong. [Including feminine ra´ ah; as adjective or noun.]