why would god create something that can resist him?

[soadnot]

Why would god create something that would resist him?
IE satan, athiests, other religions

[Greatest I Am]

Why would god create something that would resist him?
IE Satan, atheists, other religions

This speaks to the purpose of God.
If we are in His image then we know that God needs entertainment.
Entertainment is a word that I have used to encompass all that is the purpose of man and God.
I do stretch the meaning to include the sciences and technology that we see all about.

All resistance is futile. We will all be assimilated to Heaven.

We are all aware that Satan is quite entertaining.

I do hope though that you are not giving a physical reality to Satan.
This would not be true.

Regards
DL

Resistance is futile? We will all be assimilated to heaven. I am wondering if I am having flashbacks of a really bad B rated science fiction flick. Danger Will Robinson, Danger.

Ok: seriously. If resistance is futile, then you have successfully negated the entire concept of free will. You have given the word a useless connotation of illusion only. For if we must all assimilate to heaven and resistance is irrelevant, then we only think we can opt to find no reason to believe God exists.

God creates Perfect souls.
Why should it surprise you and turn you from God if your souls does what it was created to do, reach Heaven.
Are you also put out when a fish goes to water.
As to free will, it is always there.
Can you pinch yourself or not? If you can you have free will.
We reach Heaven because we wish to.
How many do you know that are hopping for other places?

Regards
DL

if i chose to pinch myself, did god know about it already?
if yes, there is no free will.
if no, god is not omnipotent.

He knows all.
How this takes away your free will you would need to demonstrate.

If I follow you on the road, I can predict that you will do certain things. I have no control of your free will except to know that you will not put your car where mine is.
Knowing what is ahead for you has nothing to do with your loss of free will.
If this were not true then we would have to show just when God took it away and since we have a little free will that is provable then we would have to decide to what extent God is reducing this free will.

Regards
DL

k. you predicting what will happen is different from god knowing exactly what will happen.
god knows exactly where I'm going to drive this car, how fast and how much fuel I'm using etc.
he knows when I'm going to decide to put on the breaks.
if he knows what i want to do, its not what i want anymore, its what he wants of me.

let me put it this way...
when god created me he says that on this day and this time i will decide to clap.
however, if he "programed"/told me to decide to do something, its not my decision is it?
I'm just subconsciously doing what he told me to do.

Knowing everything that is to happen would be counter productive to a happy life for a God. Over the kind of time frame we are talking about, I am sure that boredom would kill. This knowing would also ignore the uncertainty principle. God would likely follow the same laws that exist for man otherwise man could not understand them or Him. Perhaps it is the uncertainty principle that keeps us all alive and interested in life.
That we have free will is demonstrable. How God has set things up for his own joy of life we do not know. It may not be knowable at this point in time.
There may be a book where all is writen. God may choose not to flip all the pages.
We may not know the secret of living with infinite boredom, or if indeed infinite boredom exists.
I think the thing to do is to follow our God given natures to wherever it leads and have faith that things are on a tract that will benefit us.

Not all questions are easy for humans eh?

Regards
DL

[soadnot]

Why would god create something that would resist him?
IE Satan, atheists, other religions

This speaks to the purpose of God.
If we are in His image then we know that God needs entertainment.
Entertainment is a word that I have used to encompass all that is the purpose of man and God.
I do stretch the meaning to include the sciences and technology that we see all about.

All resistance is futile. We will all be assimilated to Heaven.

We are all aware that Satan is quite entertaining.

I do hope though that you are not giving a physical reality to Satan.
This would not be true.

Regards
DL

Resistance is futile? We will all be assimilated to heaven. I am wondering if I am having flashbacks of a really bad B rated science fiction flick. Danger Will Robinson, Danger.

Ok: seriously. If resistance is futile, then you have successfully negated the entire concept of free will. You have given the word a useless connotation of illusion only. For if we must all assimilate to heaven and resistance is irrelevant, then we only think we can opt to find no reason to believe God exists.

God creates Perfect souls.
Why should it surprise you and turn you from God if your souls does what it was created to do, reach Heaven.
Are you also put out when a fish goes to water.
As to free will, it is always there.
Can you pinch yourself or not? If you can you have free will.
We reach Heaven because we wish to.
How many do you know that are hopping for other places?

Regards
DL

if i chose to pinch myself, did god know about it already?
if yes, there is no free will.
if no, god is not omnipotent.

He knows all.
How this takes away your free will you would need to demonstrate.

If I follow you on the road, I can predict that you will do certain things. I have no control of your free will except to know that you will not put your car where mine is.
Knowing what is ahead for you has nothing to do with your loss of free will.
If this were not true then we would have to show just when God took it away and since we have a little free will that is provable then we would have to decide to what extent God is reducing this free will.

Regards
DL

k. you predicting what will happen is different from god knowing exactly what will happen.
god knows exactly where I'm going to drive this car, how fast and how much fuel I'm using etc.
he knows when I'm going to decide to put on the breaks.
if he knows what i want to do, its not what i want anymore, its what he wants of me.

let me put it this way...
when god created me he says that on this day and this time i will decide to clap.
however, if he "programed"/told me to decide to do something, its not my decision is it?
I'm just subconsciously doing what he told me to do.

Knowing everything that is to happen would be counter productive to a happy life for a God. Over the kind of time frame we are talking about, I am sure that boredom would kill. This knowing would also ignore the uncertainty principle. God would likely follow the same laws that exist for man otherwise man could not understand them or Him. Perhaps it is the uncertainty principle that keeps us all alive and interested in life.
That we have free will is demonstrable. How God has set things up for his own joy of life we do not know. It may not be knowable at this point in time.
There may be a book where all is writen. God may choose not to flip all the pages.
We may not know the secret of living with infinite boredom, or if indeed infinite boredom exists.
I think the thing to do is to follow our God given natures to wherever it leads and have faith that things are on a tract that will benefit us.

Not all questions are easy for humans eh?

Regards
DL

i understand where your coming from...
but..
boredom is caused by a tired state of mind, human mind.
if god gets bored, he could also feel anger, love and hate.
then, god could also be limited, he would feel greed to something he could not have..but then again, god can have everything he wants so he would not feel greed and not be limited. so if he cannot feel greed, he cannot feel anger towards that greed. if he cannot feel anger, he does not feel joy either, because you must know sadness before you know joy. so if he cant be greedy, sad, joyful, angery he cant be bored.
god cant be bored because god is not limited.
therfore, if god is limited, god has no feelings. if god has no feelings, he has no need for "entertainment" (being us). so, there is no need for us.
you get where im going with this?

also, if god has written out my destiny before i was born, this destiny showing all the paths i will take and the goal i will reach, from something as little as scratching myself or picking up a pen to finishing a book, how can i have freewill if everything has already ben fortold for me?

in conclusion, the idea of an omnipotent god that has feelings and gives us free will is absurd. if god is real, he must be higher than the limitations of man, higher than the limitations of physics and science as well.
god cannot be bound by his own laws.
if he is bound by the laws of logic and physics, than is he still worthy of worship?
if he is not bound by those laws than he is certainly not limited and wouldnt experience boredom which would make us meaningless for him.

[Greatest I Am]

Why would god create something that would resist him?
IE Satan, atheists, other religions

This speaks to the purpose of God.
If we are in His image then we know that God needs entertainment.
Entertainment is a word that I have used to encompass all that is the purpose of man and God.
I do stretch the meaning to include the sciences and technology that we see all about.

All resistance is futile. We will all be assimilated to Heaven.

We are all aware that Satan is quite entertaining.

I do hope though that you are not giving a physical reality to Satan.
This would not be true.

Regards
DL

Resistance is futile? We will all be assimilated to heaven. I am wondering if I am having flashbacks of a really bad B rated science fiction flick. Danger Will Robinson, Danger.

Ok: seriously. If resistance is futile, then you have successfully negated the entire concept of free will. You have given the word a useless connotation of illusion only. For if we must all assimilate to heaven and resistance is irrelevant, then we only think we can opt to find no reason to believe God exists.

God creates Perfect souls.
Why should it surprise you and turn you from God if your souls does what it was created to do, reach Heaven.
Are you also put out when a fish goes to water.
As to free will, it is always there.
Can you pinch yourself or not? If you can you have free will.
We reach Heaven because we wish to.
How many do you know that are hopping for other places?

Regards
DL

if i chose to pinch myself, did god know about it already?
if yes, there is no free will.
if no, god is not omnipotent.

He knows all.
How this takes away your free will you would need to demonstrate.

If I follow you on the road, I can predict that you will do certain things. I have no control of your free will except to know that you will not put your car where mine is.
Knowing what is ahead for you has nothing to do with your loss of free will.
If this were not true then we would have to show just when God took it away and since we have a little free will that is provable then we would have to decide to what extent God is reducing this free will.

Regards
DL

k. you predicting what will happen is different from god knowing exactly what will happen.
god knows exactly where I'm going to drive this car, how fast and how much fuel I'm using etc.
he knows when I'm going to decide to put on the breaks.
if he knows what i want to do, its not what i want anymore, its what he wants of me.

let me put it this way...
when god created me he says that on this day and this time i will decide to clap.
however, if he "programed"/told me to decide to do something, its not my decision is it?
I'm just subconsciously doing what he told me to do.

Knowing everything that is to happen would be counter productive to a happy life for a God. Over the kind of time frame we are talking about, I am sure that boredom would kill. This knowing would also ignore the uncertainty principle. God would likely follow the same laws that exist for man otherwise man could not understand them or Him. Perhaps it is the uncertainty principle that keeps us all alive and interested in life.
That we have free will is demonstrable. How God has set things up for his own joy of life we do not know. It may not be knowable at this point in time.
There may be a book where all is writen. God may choose not to flip all the pages.
We may not know the secret of living with infinite boredom, or if indeed infinite boredom exists.
I think the thing to do is to follow our God given natures to wherever it leads and have faith that things are on a tract that will benefit us.

Not all questions are easy for humans eh?

Regards
DL

i understand where your coming from...
but..
boredom is caused by a tired state of mind, human mind.
if god gets bored, he could also feel anger, love and hate.
then, god could also be limited, he would feel greed to something he could not have..but then again, god can have everything he wants so he would not feel greed and not be limited. so if he cannot feel greed, he cannot feel anger towards that greed. if he cannot feel anger, he does not feel joy either, because you must know sadness before you know joy. so if he cant be greedy, sad, joyful, angery he cant be bored.
god cant be bored because god is not limited.
therefore, if god is limited, god has no feelings. if god has no feelings, he has no need for "entertainment" (being us). so, there is no need for us.
you get where I'm going with this?

GIA wrote
Yes but we are here, therefore we must have a purpose. You also must realize that trying to place words in the mouth of God is dangerous. Entertainment here is speculation on my part. Until we meet God, we cannot know how He would explain His prime motivator for existence.

also, if god has written out my destiny before i was born, this destiny showing all the paths i will take and the goal i will reach, from something as little as scratching myself or picking up a pen to finishing a book, how can i have freewill if everything has already ben foretold for me?

GIA wrote
God knowing where I am going does nothing to help or hinder my journey. I am still in charge of the steps I take. If I go right or left is my decision. If God wanted control of me He could take it at any time. The fact that He does not is a clear indicator that I have freedom of choice. God, to my knowledge, has always offered choices. Intervention is not His way. What more can I say?


in conclusion, the idea of an omnipotent god that has feelings and gives us free will is absurd. if god is real, he must be higher than the limitations of man, higher than the limitations of physics and science as well.
god cannot be bound by his own laws.
if he is bound by the laws of logic and physics, than is he still worthy of worship?
if he is not bound by those laws than he is certainly not limited and wouldn't experience boredom which would make us meaningless for him.

When God created things, He created them Perfect. Could He create some other form of Perfection than what we see around us? Probably, why not. The fact that He does not change things here and now should indicate that He is happy with the direction of things. In a Perfect universe this is what you would expect.

Every thing is as it should be. God would have it no other way.

Regards
DL

[QED]

Every thing is as it should be. God would have it no other way.

You must realize that that's going to annoy the heck out of anyone who's just had their fingers slammed in a car door. You do seem to like to talk a lot about "perfection". How would we know if things were less that perfect?

[Furrowed Brow]

Every thing is as it should be. God would have it no other way.

You must realize that that's going to annoy the heck out of anyone who's just had their fingers slammed in a car door. You do seem to like to talk a lot about "perfection". How would we know if things were less that perfect?

Ah this reminds me of Voltaire's Dr Pangloss. A thinly disguised satirisation of Leibniz, and the axiom: This is the best of all possible worlds. The modern apologetics philosopher Richard Swinburne takes a similar tack. I got this from Dawkins and TGD p64. Justifying suffering he offers the jaw dropping..

Some people badly need to be ill for their own sake..

Following that line of logic WWII was all about teaching Hitler humility I guess. The Ethiopian famines of the 1980s provided the Ethiopians the overdue lesson of appreciating the good things in life. Sorry...I know I am displaying sarcasm...but this is beyond parody.

[Greatest I Am]

Every thing is as it should be. God would have it no other way.

You must realize that that's going to annoy the heck out of anyone who's just had their fingers slammed in a car door. You do seem to like to talk a lot about "perfection". How would we know if things were less that perfect?

Believing that the two branches of the tree of good and evil are the same length and that the universe is in balance, makes it easier.

In my universe, when I see something bad or evil happen, I know that something good is happening to counter the occasion.

Every Christian should feel the same way because Jesus died for the forgiveness of all sin.
The bad things that happen to our bodies are somehow tied in with God's plan for us and the reward will more than compensate.

Regards
DL

[QED]

Believing that the two branches of the tree of good and evil are the same length and that the universe is in balance, makes it easier.

Sorry, makes what easier? Putting up with suffering?

In my universe, when I see something bad or evil happen, I know that something good is happening to counter the occasion.

Every Christian should feel the same way because Jesus died for the forgiveness of all sin.
The bad things that happen to our bodies are somehow tied in with God's plan for us and the reward will more than compensate.

So when I see an act of mindless violence before me I should rest content that elsewhere, something good is blossoming to keep the branches equal? Doesn't this encourage people to sit back while evil things unfold, you know; according to God's mysterious plan?

I appreciate a certain amount of the sentiment contained in your philosophy but I think the expression "It's an ill wind that blows no good" is more appropriate than "Every cloud has a silver lining" when describing the state of our world.

[Greatest I Am]

Believing that the two branches of the tree of good and evil are the same length and that the universe is in balance, makes it easier.

Sorry, makes what easier? Putting up with suffering?

Yes.

In my universe, when I see something bad or evil happen, I know that something good is happening to counter the occasion.

Every Christian should feel the same way because Jesus died for the forgiveness of all sin.
The bad things that happen to our bodies are somehow tied in with God's plan for us and the reward will more than compensate.

So when I see an act of mindless violence before me I should rest content that elsewhere, something good is blossoming to keep the branches equal?

You have heard of "wars and rumors of wars" etc.
It applies today just as much as it did then.
God makes Perfection and all is as it should be.


Doesn't this encourage people to sit back while evil things unfold, you know; according to God's mysterious plan?

No. For evil to grow all good people need do is nothing.

I appreciate a certain amount of the sentiment contained in your philosophy but I think the expression "It's an ill wind that blows no good" is more appropriate than "Every cloud has a silver lining" when describing the state of our world.

We all follow our own path. We all get to Heaven.

Regards
DL

[AClockWorkOrange]

the real question is why would god create beings, give no real inclination of his existance to the bulk of them, then punish them for not believing.

oh, and make them rational beings, putting them in an environment that runs by certain rules of existance, then expect them to believe irrationally in a being who defies the only rules they know...and punish them if they dont.


evil.

[Confused]

I think that is called S&M?